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July 21 - 31, 2009


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Note: The appearance of a chart on FAQ does not imply any kind of indication or recommendation to buy, sell, hold or stay out of any positions.



Contributors Say

(Previous from Ed in Red)

Ed Says

Thursday, July 30, 2009



Dear Ed,

This report is both a Big Wave report and a follow-up report on my Reno Rocks Process.

I feel that my original Big Wave (The confidence to be spontaneous) and my Reno Rocks Process (addressing my inability to feel my feelings) both contributed to a surge in my social confidence:

- the Big Wave by pushing me to actively go out, meet and talk to people.

- the Rocks Process by role-playing the humiliating experience of my mother slapping me on a regular basis, and by me no longer accepting this humiliation at face value.

Unfortunately, the Rocks Process has done only a little bit towards more awareness of my feelings (i.e. my original aim). I still don’t feel emotions on a deep level or on a regular basis. I still don’t feel hunger either, at least not in my stomach. I usually take something to eat when I taste ‘a boring taste' in my mouth.

However, on three occasions since April I experience a new intensity in my feelings.

- Once, when I feel very sad, I feel a small hard ball in my stomach (which is a first).

- Once I get a giggle attack (another first).

- Another time, after running, I feel thirst all the way from my mouth to my stomach (another first).

But the main, unintended benefit of the Rocks Process is definitely a surge in confidence. I notice this surge almost instantly, while still at the Reno Workshop; a quiet confidence that I didn’t feel before the Process.

Unfortunately, over the last two weeks I have lost a lot of that confidence.

My confidence rocks seem to be falling back into the original positions.

I can pinpoint pretty much exactly when and how.

Somehow, certain women seem to like to humiliate me, and I seem to invite them to do so.


On five occasions over the past four weeks, 4 women and 1 (gay) man do something that I feel is purely intended to put me down or to humiliate me. This humiliation I feel is slowly un-doing the Rocks Process results.

The problem is that on instances where I feel humiliated, I get furious and I freeze.

I forget to express how it makes me feel (one of my resource rocks), or to ask how the other person feels. Instead, I feel a strong urge to lash out at the humiliator.

One such occasion is 10 days ago at my local supermarket.

In [country], after the cashier scans the groceries, the customer has to put the groceries in the bags by himself. Normally, the cashier pushes the groceries on the conveyor belt towards the customer. But this time, the cashier puts part of my groceries on the little shelf next to the pin-machine.

I ask her to push these groceries towards me. She refuses, saying “NO”. First I am perplexed. Then I sense that this woman is picking a fight with me on purpose. Next I feel a surge of anger (heat on my chest), and I ask: “what’s the point of that?” She says: “only the heavy items.” By giving me this nonsense-reason I get even more furious and I say: "you are supposed to do as the customer requests". She says: "says you!" I say: “obviously your upbringing was lost on you.” She says: “says you!”.

I grab the groceries from the shelf, I pay and leave. I feel treated like crap.

I feel that she won and I lost.

I have an "AHA" immediately: what just happened is very damaging to what I built up with the Rocks Process; this is my Rocks Process Reversal. Not this incident only, but the previous four (less blatant) humiliation incidents and this one combined.

I also notice that fear is involved. I am afraid that, if I really make a stand with that cashier, I might get into real trouble, by being arrested, or get in a physical fight with someone from the line behind me. On the other hand, I am convinced that in such a case, I will feel proud of myself afterward, regardless of bruises or arrests.

With this supermarket experience in mind, I see that a well-calibrated assertiveness can be an important resource for me. Unfortunately, “fighting back” was not included as a resource rock in my Reno Rocks Process.

Included resources were: 1. tell how I feel - 2. ask how she feels – 3. invite to play – 4. be creative – 5. the old solution of shutting up.

In my last report I say that I will rephrase my Big Wave schedule & measurement report.

I have ordered some books on assertiveness. I think assertiveness might be a crucial element in achieving the spontaneity/creativity part of my Big Wave.

In my next report I will let you know how I will make assertiveness a new resource.

Thanks again for your support,

Thank you for sharing your process.


Your judgment about humiliation is consistent with your pattern of attracting drama in which the payoff is that you get to feel humiliation.


You might consider taking your feelings about <humiliation> to Tribe.


When you discover the positive intention of the feeling of humiliation, the drama surrounding this feeling is likely to disappear.


You might also consider adding to your resource list: Stop attracting / inviting humiliation drama.




Some People Like Humiliation Enough


to pay for it.







Clip: http://www.ferrum26.net/




Thursday, July 30, 2009


Enthusiastic Marketing and Ethics

Hello Chief

Today I read an article about you and Risk management, I quote:

"Fortunately for us, the tenets of Ed Seykota’s article are embodied by the [Name] Platform: "

I wonder if the founder and developer of [Platform] is selling your knowledge or if he just came to the same conclusion and is now selling it as a product ?



I do not know the founder and cannot comment as to the similarities and/or differences between his work and mine.


I do not recall receiving a call from him to confirm he understands TTP principles.


You might consider that his practices of

(1) name-dropping without authorization and


(2) claiming inclusion of "tenets" without presenting evidence

might indicate that his "enthusiastic marketing" ethics also color other areas of his business.





If You Pay Attention to Details

about the things you can see


you can tell a lot

about the things you can't.





Clip: http://thenonconformer.files.wordpress.com


Wednesday, July 29, 2009


Feedback on Feedback Dynamics

Hi Ed,

I notice seemingly continual iterative improvement in your system dynamic stuff. I think it is great.

I stop working on my model and read D Meadow's system book. I notice parallels (Forrester's influence) in both your and Meadow's thinking. (e.g. from Meadows-- "System purpose is deduced from system behavior, not from rhetoric")

I gain benefit from Nick's work as well. I notice myself being more comfortable with confusion!


I learn more. Although I work slower. Perhaps speed is medication for confusion!

In any case -- nice work.

Thank you for your support of our EcoNowMics project.

Wednesday, July 29, 2009


Process Report - Starting a Fund

Dear Ed,

Thanks for reading this mail and supporting me on this fantastic journey.

*) I am supporting my girlfriend these days, she feels depressed and not happy about her work.

She feels old (she is the mid-twenties) and a lot of frustration as "she has not picked up the right job".

*) I have a talk with my former flatmate, he thinks he can rise XXM$.

*) In the meanwhile I commit to actively trade a fund internally. I plan to be ready in the next 2 weeks.

*) I am reading Road Map 9 and all the available material on the website on System Dynamics

I see another Workshop coming.


Congratulations!! I feel my (our) last Workshop has been moments ago.

Apparently there is a rumor that the international hit "Say How It Is" is going to be performed Live in Reno.

It Rocks!

Thank you for sharing your process.

Wednesday, July 29, 2009


Control to Intimacy

Dear Ed,

I report on my Big Wave (I give my wife and children all my love and support / I give up control).

I keep on jogging with my son (11 years). He tells me his views about the unconscious mind, the meaning of life, the nature of trust between people...I am baffled about the depth of his ideas.

I am much more aware of the needs of my daughter. For her, a virtual pet is a living being. Her mother laughs at it and criticizes her, and she is in deep pain. However, I realize how important the golden pandas are for her, and can discuss with her how to take care of them during the holiday.

I observe several changes in my wife. She caresses me, says goodbye [to me] when she leaves the house, sometimes she does not sleep with her back to me. She looks much more relaxed and happy. At the same time, she mentions that she sometimes is scared if I draw close to her. I keep on asking her before I kiss her on her cheek or I caress her. I wonder about how common this is in other couples.

I wonder about other things. For 12 years we spend the holidays at the same place, chosen by her parents. Last year I tell her that I would like a new resort, but she decides against it. I don't like the idea of having her parents around in our current situation, and decide to stay at home.

After my family leaves, I am very angry. As I realize that I am angry, I let the anger flow and find out that, in fact, I am very sad about not spending the holidays together. As I accept sadness and let it flow, I have an "aha": I realize that the place and the grandparents are great for the children. I ask myself if I am an egotist. I ask myself if I should give up my needs and spend another holiday at the same place, with her family.

There is a second holiday week. My wife wants to visit her parents [again] with the children. I suggest several alternatives; she rejects all of them and books the reservations. Maybe I spend the whole holiday alone.

We have a conversation at the phone (this is also new: she never calls me when I am abroad, and she is irritated if I call her frequently). I like rice and soybeans. She disapproves me for eating it. She asks me if I ate my "delicious rice". I mention that I feel that she criticizes what I eat. She denies doing it. I wonder how what I eat is her business. At the phone she sounds changed: she used to be very timid, but this time she is very firm in her argumentation. She mentions that she misses me a little bit, and that the feeling tranquilizes her. To clarify her ideas, she starts writing about her feelings regarding me. I wonder about her conclusions.

I take the feeling “I make a wrong decision” to the hotseat. The entry point is buying a stock; after some minutes I realize that I am talking about my marriage. I learn that we do not make “wrong decisions”: We decide with a goal in mind, we observe the outcome, and then we decide again. In this view, there are interactions and ever changing systems, and we adapt to them with new politics. There is no right or wrong decision: if one decision does not lead to the expected outcome, who says which other decision could? We can only try again.

I enter some trades, I take too much risk and loss in three days the profits of three weeks.

I read the FAQ from Saturday, July 25, 2009.


I read articles from this link:




I feel that the counselor suggests to remain open, to receive the other person, to share feelings with her, and not to try to control him / her. Basically, what we do in Tribe.

I am aware that, in order to retain control, I can see and present the facts in a way that is favorable to me. I am aware that throwing in the towel can be a strategy to avoid giving up control: leaving my wife can hence mean “I am following my heart” but also “I am not willing to change myself”. I am very thankful to Ed, who points at my inconsistencies; I am thankful for feedback regarding these issues.

Emails from Tribesmen and FAQ suggests to me that they learn from my experience and my reports. Maybe I am leading by example. I don't know.

As I write this email I am very sad about my family not being here. I keep on being patient, listening to my wife and being aware of her feelings and mine.

I thank you for your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Once you give up trying to control others, you might consider experimenting with allowing others to control parts of your life.


As you reduce the level of drama in your relationship, you might find it re-appearing in other areas, such as in your trading.


You might consider taking your feelings about <struggle> and <control> to Tribe.




If You Deal With Symptoms


they might re-appear elsewhere.





Clip: http://www.halftimegames.com/files/



Tuesday, July 28, 2009


Emotional Trading

Hi, Ed!


I have been reading the Trading Tribe book together with my girlfriend. What I like the most about the Trading Trading is the process of getting in touch and experiencing "k-notty" feelings.

It's been a long time since I last experienced some "issue" to work with. Lately, however, apart from having my system ready to run, fully tested, validated, etc. I have also been playing with discretionary trading stocks.

Today I feel great remorse for abandoning a good trade I initiated a couple of days ago.  I was fully loaded with the expectation of a major run, got scared out of a down day and jumped out. In the next days I just watch price gathering speed again, but this time I am out ...

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <missing out> to Tribe.





Clip: http://www.mike-downey.com/


Monday, July 27, 2009


The Road that Never Ends -

Song Celebrating Marriage



I thought you would like this music clip:




Thank you for the clip.

Monday, July 27, 2009


Wants Interview

Hello Ed,

I read your part in the Market Wizards book and we would love to do a paid phone interview with you for our small group of traders.

I'm the marketing director at [Company] and we are trend traders. We are always trying to give our members good content about trading.

The benefits of a one hour phone interview are that it is short and done at any time that is convenient for you. We are more than happy to pay you for your time and another side benefit is that you can share your website on the interview if you like.


We will record it so future students of ours can listen to it and learn from your wisdom. This means you will get a steady stream of interested people visiting your site for years to come if you want. Or do it just to help out some trend traders.


Let me know what you charge per hour or if you have any questions. I'd love to call you, but I could not find your number on the internet.

Thank you for your offer.


Your members can access this site to get information about trading and about other matters as well.


I rarely grant interviews or engage in activities that might imply an endorsement. See Ground Rules, above: FAQ does not endorse people or commercial products, or trade commercial links.

Monday, July 27, 2009


From Control to Intimacy

See Previous


As I finish reading "From Control to Intimacy" I feel a tingle sensation on top of my head and say "wow" to myself. I notice I get a tingle feeling when I experience something that is meaningful to me.

As far as "From Control to Intimacy" goes, I sense your response is a topic you touch on in some of your other answers. However, this time around it all comes together.

Thank you for your work.





Sometimes You Get a Tingle


and sometimes you get

a sore thumb.




Clip: http://www.ehow.com/how_4685184_



Saturday, July 25, 2009


De-Friend Feeling

Hey Ed,

In the moment of now, I have

1. A recollection of you “friending” me on Facebook.

2. No connection to you on my Facebook friends list.

3. Ambivalent feelings about joining your Facebook fan club which I found by searching for your name.

I guess it has been awhile. Have I been dumped? Is that un-friended or de-friended, I wonder.

I decide I don’t bear a grudge for being “un-friended”. I click the link and join your club.

BTW, your whipsaw video is today’s entry on my blog. Perhaps I am a fan all along.

Thank you for your note.

I recall cancelling my Facebook account a long time ago in response to receiving an avalanche of invitations from whom I do not know.

I recall having a few "friends," including you, all of whom I know.

Currently, I am not the author of the "fan club" or of other facebook-type accounts that bear my name.

You might consider taking your feelings about <rejection> to Tribe.

Saturday, July 25, 2009

From Control to Intimacy

See Previous

Hi Ed,

In July 2008 I start reading FAQ.

I feel empathy for the man who writes about his beautiful accomplished intelligent cold wife. I wonder if she has feelings for someone else.

I have similar experiences. I meet my wife's needs but she does not meet mine. She does not respect or desire me. I find help here:




I make changes to myself. My wife changes too. I tell why I'm unhappy and that I often think about leaving.

Eventually, our marriage improves.

Today I look at the Whipsaw Song page and see that it is a version of a traditional piece, The Crawdad Song.

I look up the lyrics:





and wonder, like your writer's lady friend, if the second verse could help his marriage.

You don’t miss water’

'til the well runs dry, honey

You don’t miss water

‘til the well runs dry, babe

You don’t miss water

‘til the well runs dry ...

an’ you don’t miss your man

‘til he says good bye

Honey, sugar baby mine.

If not, there's always verse three of the Whipsaw Song...

What do we do when we show a loss, honey ... etc.

We give that dag-gone loss a toss.

Thank you for sharing your process.



In Poker


as well as in trading and in marriage


You got to know when to hold 'em,

you got to know when to fold em,

you got to know when to walk away,

you got to know when to run.


Never count your money

when you're setting at the table


There's time enough for counting

when the deal is done


-- Kenny Rogers' The Gambler


Song clip: http://www.youtube.com/




Clip: www.insidesocal.com/bargain/







Saturday, July 25, 2009



Dear Ed,

When I start from the FAQs from 11-20 July, I cannot reach the FAQs July 21-30 since the link is wrong.

Also on the Index page there is no link to the FAQ from 21-30 July.

Thank you for your commitment to the work.

Thank you for the catches.

Friday, July 24, 2009


Fear of the Tribe

Dear Ed,

Thanks for providing all of us with such inspiring material.

I am interested in joining a Trading Tribe but I am fearful. I sometimes feel that I have so many problems I would not know where to begin. I also feel that some of my problems cause me to do
things (although none of which are illegal) that are too shameful for me to reveal.

I sometimes wonder whether I have a mild form of bipolar disorder or depression.

You might consider taking you feelings about <fear> to Tribe.  You might also consider enrolling in the upcoming workshop.

Thursday, July 23, 2009



Dear Ed:

I hope you are well. I thank you for your sharing on EcoNowMics and all the resources on www.seykota.com .


We have updated our tribe. Our venue have moved from [City] to [City].


Thank you for your attention and cooperation on this matter.


Thursday, July 23, 2009

Feeling Feelings Rather than Telling Them

Dear Ed,

I have understood that it is more effective to feel the feelings than talking about them. The trading tribe seems in that sense less effective than DIM?

Thank you for sharing your theory.


You might consider noticing that you talk about your understanding and do so in the past tense, without mentioning the process of arriving at your conclusion.


This is all quite consistent with the DIM process.

Wednesday, July 22, 2009


From Control to Intimacy

Dear Ed,

I have an avalanche of "Aha's" to report.

My wife is worried about the new school books for the children; we did not send the order timely and will have some additional costs and work to get them. I tell her "I see that you worry about it; I can help you with the tasks". She [says]: "ha, ha, ha".

"Aha" 1: My wife laughs at me when I offer my support. How supportive have I been in the past?

Me: "I want to support you, but when you talk to me this way I am confused, I feel that you laugh at me and reject me". She [says]: "I [said] nothing".

I try to acknowledge it. I can not. I remember some similar occasions when she insults me or says "ha, ha, ha" when I say something nice to her.

"Aha" 2: I cannot acknowledge everything. I still have to work on me.

When I mention that her “ha, ha, ha” hurts me, she says "I said nothing". I feel angry. I mention that I am angry, confused and that I feel hurt. She justifies herself by saying that she is worried about the books, and that I am overreacting. I remember that she, in opposite to me, basically does not apologize.

I still feel angry. Then, I realize that I am angry.

"Aha" 3: This is an important issue: I can enjoy anger, but only when I realize that I am angry. It takes me a moment to start laughing (delay between feedback and answer!). The fact that I need a short time until I can enjoy a feeling does not necessarily mean that I don't want to experience it.

After another moment, I feel terribly sad. I wait, not knowing what to do. And this is a turning point.

The basic issue in our relationship is that I feel that my wife does not accept my demonstrations of affection, care, closeness, attraction for her. She does not apologize after saying something crude; she does not share her feelings with me. But I can also say: I do not express my feelings in a way
that my wife understands me. For years I feel frustration, rejection and sadness. I cover everything with anger. I obtain anger from my job, from stupid associates, from the market, from my poor children, from sport injuries, from the too salty food at our Hospital...

Back to my wife: I feel very sad. I tell her "I feel terribly sad". How will she react? She stands up, her face irradiates compassion, and embraces me. She
apologizes. I start crying until I enjoy the sadness.
I wonder about how the system changes when I push a different plug.

"Aha" 4: I see that I am not a bad guy. I have to learn to express my feelings in a way that other people can understand me.

"Aha" 5: Sometimes people do not want to understand me. Some people are not interested in understanding me. It is OK to me, but maybe I prefer to spend my time with people who support me and understand me.

I mention to my wife that it is certainly difficult for her to see my emotional outbreaks. She is confused about me crying for such a small issue. I mention that rejection, sadness and impotence are not small issues. Maybe everybody feels the same way, but most people just medicate the sadness with anger, alcohol, TV or daily trading.

I am very thankful for your support and help.

Thank you, Chief.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You may recall choosing your wife while you are still heavily into the control-centric model of relating.  She knows how to relate to you in that way.


As you become more intimacy-centric, she may choose to follow you and join you in a new form of relating.


This may require patience and listening skills as you come to know and respond to each others emotional needs.


If she wishes to stay with the control model, you may wind up separating so she can find a replacement control-centric mate and so you can find an intimacy-centric partner.




Your Ideal Mate


may change as you change.














Clip: http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/30/0/



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