© Ed Seykota, 2003 - 2006 ... Write for permission to reprint.

Ed Seykota's

Frequently Asked Questions

FAQ Index & Ground Rules  ...  Tribe Directory - How to Join

TTP - The Trading Tribe Process  ...  Rocks  ...  Glossary

  TTP Workshop  ...  Resources  ...  Site Search  ...  The Trading Tribe Book

TSP: Trading System Project  ...  Breathwork

Associates Program  ...  Chart Server  ...  Contact Us


February 15 - 28, 2007


<==  Previous  |  Next  ==>





(Quotes from Ed in prior FAQ's in Red)


Wed, 28 Feb 2007


Hedges Sell Off

Hello Ed

That was some sell off we had today wasn't it?
Its the first time I have seen a market dump so swiftly from being so high.

I started this morning with 62 open long stocks most of which have wide stops from 15% up to 55% in some cases with my very small volatile stocks.

So after watching the first hours action here in UK and deliberating how to handle it, a few more down points convinced me to enter a partial hedge
( around 20% of my long value ) in the FT-SE250 midcap index.

Later as more weakness continued to bash my account down about 5% I sold a batch of FT-SE 100 futures, making a 60% hedge, and by 2pm still more weakness convinced me to go market neutral with 100% hedge. This last hedge was done with the German MDAX Futures.

So after feeling real fear-awe-shock etc. for the first time in ages, I patted myself on the back for remembering to be disciplined and went out to my table tennis match after the market closed.

Some time previously I had left my pre-arranged hedge stops on the FT-SE 100 Futures with a 24 hour broker, and these were still in place after my initial hedging of the morning. At about 8pm I received a text message indicating I had also been filled on my short entry stop!

Wow, the Dow was in free fall and I was net short.

I am so pleased that I kept the discipline to place these emergency hedge stops all those weeks ago, and I reckon tomorrow morning will turn out profitable even though some of my longs are sure to be stopped out, and I am expecting the FT-SE 100 to open a possible 80 points down.

Of all my 62 longs open, only one was stopped out during today and because I have spent so many long hours choosing these stocks on a combination
of technicals and funnymentals, I really don't like to bail out of them all in a blind panic.


Instead I enjoyed the gradually transition from long to short in those 4 stages today, and think its a much better way than just to completely reverse an entire portfolio all in one hit, when so often the market recovers in a day or so, or I sell the low of the move.

The moves today were absolutely shocking, and I would be very interested to know how other traders handled it. I closed the day with a loss of around 7% on my portfolio which would have been about 11% had I not shorted the indices. ( I am using a geared method, and was around 3.7 times geared long )
Now my portfolio is geared up 8.14 times, but the actual net gearing is less than 0.4 (short) of the account size.

My risk is now all about correlation, and that was my reason for using 3 different futures contracts to hedge.

My moral is, even though there are only 4 position variables in trading: Long, short, neutral, out, It's nice to slide slowly from one side of the fence to the other instead of jumping straight over it in one go.

I watched the man who predicted the 1987 crash on Bloomberg today, again predicting "its time to sell", and surprisingly Alan Greenspan commented that the US could "slip into recession". This is most unusual to get these calls while to markets are so very close to their multi year highs?

Another very annoying thing about days like this, is that day trading trend systems work phenomenally well, when mostly on more normal days they don't perform.

As I am so busy protecting my investments, I never have time to make a fast buck on these whammy moves when they are actually happening!

I can see there is more downside to follow, but the long term Dow and SP500 charts still look pretty bullish for the long long term, so I am not selling my long stocks until the stops hit.

Better to hedge, and enter into new shorts in companies that are suspect in both technical and funnymental analysis.

Thank you for sharing your process.




The Essential Hedge for a Falling Stock


is to sell that stock.

Tue, 27 Feb 2007




1. Please correlate, for me, trend following, the commitment of being a trader and trading with a system.


2. I want to be a trader with deeper commitment. May I request you to please guide me in achieving to become a trader with deeper commitment ?

3. What are the, psychological, qualities / issues, that need to be addressed, in the process of becoming a trader with a deep commitment.

4. Please help me in understanding the feelings of a trader with a deep commitment.

5. I want to know, from you sir, the feelings of a trader with a deep commitment and that of the other without it.

You might consider identifying any feelings that stand between you and following a system - and then taking those feelings to your Tribe as entry points.





Commitment is not a Feeling


it is the willingness

to keep your word

no matter how you feel.


Clip: http://www.mondera.ph/store/Wedding/




Sun, 25 Feb 2007


Thoughts on Now


I have Aha's in my mediation. Yes, They are now
memories in my mind and I am recovering them. I think we are physically always in NOW. All of our
activities, either physical or mental, are also
happening in NOW. Yes, our mind can bring the memories of past into its processor and process them NOW. Our mind can also make up something for the future, reason or project something into the future NOW. Whatever our mind is doing, it is doing NOW.

I think that the reason we are concerning about this
is we want our mind to focus on things that are
currently happening, instead of wasting its energy on
non-existing future and useless memories of the past. But we just have so many knots inside us, Fred and CM are not in harmony. So our mind just can not focus on things that are happening now, including its own intentions. I think TTP can help us more and more stay in NOW and help us to achieve

Best Wishes,

Thank you for sharing your process.



The Past and The Future

are cultural myths


Physical attempts to access them fail.


Attempts to explore them in novels

generate inconsistencies

and leave loose ends.



Clip: http://filmjournal.net/danielstephens/

Sun, 25 Feb 2007




I have a question with regards to receiving others. I practice receiving others and over time I have become better at this and do not get enrolled in other peoples drama so much.


What I do notice though is that receiving can really irritate people, as in really get them going, particularly my fiancée. I feel somewhat awkward about this sometimes and wonder how to handle such situations and support someone who is not aware of TTP to get into these feelings.



Trying to get people into their feelings is process management.  Accepting people the way they are, including their not wanting to get into feelings is receiving.


You might consider taking your feelings about wanting to control your fiancée to your tribe as an entry point.




People Who Need  to Be in Control


sometimes put themselves at risk

of losing it.


Clip: http://www.eurosport.com/football/


Sat, 24 Feb 2007


TTP Supports Birth

of a Baby and of a Company

Hi Ed,

I wanted to thank you and the IV Tribe for all of the support and great work you did with me in regards to my preparation for the pregnancy and delivery of our third son. I truly was stuck but, as you may recall, you all helped me with a breakthrough and I walked away with my ROCK!

I have been a foundation of strength for my family ever since. My son was born via emergency C section after ten hours of labor. The s--- the fan once again my friend, but we were ready for it Ed! We got r done! We took it with as much stride as possible and both baby and momma are doing terrific! She is healing very well and very fast all things considered and our son is a happy and peaceful young lad. I must admit he is pretty darn good looking too!

I can’t thank you enough. The TTP work we are doing at [Firm] is truly revolutionary and we are changing the business and industry of running money for the better. To boot - We are going to have a lot of fun doing it too and will help countless others along the way!

Cheers Ed! I am looking forward to having you meet my family. Have a fantastic weekend!

Thank you for sharing your process.



Some Fathers Know


their role in childbirth

lasts longer than

a few conceptual moments.


Clip: http://www.stressfree.com.au/


Sat, 24 Feb 2007


Rock Star


It just hit me while taking a shower this morning: the name “Peter” comes from “Petros,” Greek for “rock.”

The thing is: metaphysically, Peter ...“rock”…represents “faith”…i.e., our individual belief systems. (Reference: Metaphysical Bible Dictionary)

Also of interest: the Aramaic name for Peter, (which was truly in Aramaic, not Greek) was “Kepa,” also meaning “rock.” Note the similarity to the word “keep” – i.e., the thing we “hold” (faith … belief …“rock”).

I am delighted to be in the tribe. Thanks again for having me.

All the Best,

Thank you for sharing your process.



Petroleum Calcinations


Clip: http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11530808/


Thu, 22 Feb 2007


Model Account

Hi Ed,

For your famous model account, how many different markets were traded?


FAQ does not reveal personal information or offer specific trading advice or recommend specific trading system parameters.  See Ground rules.

Thu, 22 Feb 2007


Hoffman Process

Hi Ed,

You might like to take a look at this attached article from a magazine called Psychologies (Mar07 issue)

It reads to me as though it has some resemblance to TTP / Rocks Process, I thought it might interest you since until today I have never heard of Bob Hoffman (process)

Extract from article…

“The days were filled with demanding emotional tasks, from journal writing and role-play through to guided meditations and group discussion. Through ‘expressive body work’ (a way to release feelings physically), I discovered that long-held emotions were not just thoughts, but stored energy. I was stunned to realize the impact my past had had on my physicality. My facial expressions softened and, after the first few days, I held myself differently. I started to feel wonderful. I was shedding fearful beliefs and old resentments. I felt as though I was coming alive for the first time.”

Clip: http://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/


Yes, I can see some similarities - also some differences.  For example, in in TTP, we don't try to "release" feelings so much as find their positive intentions.




Bob Hoffman


Hoffman's therapeutic model includes

the notion of "Quadrinity,"

the interplay of body, mind,

emotions and spirituality. 


He also uses the notion of

"Negative Love"

and the equation;

adoption + rebellion = conflict. 


Clip: http://www.hoffmaninstitute.co.uk/intro.htm

Thu, 22 Feb 2007

Pre-Label Rocks Process

Hi Ed!

Here is a follow up on yesterdays Trading Tribe. Two people attended the meeting. We had the following Tribe schedule:

1. Drumming
2. Check-in
3. Hot seat
4. Rocks Process with Role-playing
5. Snapshot Process
6. Trading Process

The first three steps had a very quick gone through. It has become an easy process, even the hot seat. We seem to speak less nowadays and go more into the forms. The receiver also says less than in the beginning.

After this introduction we went into our new area - the Rocks Process. We had both written down rocks (on small papers). My rock said "The Unaffected." I explained that I try to show a very rigid front, even though I feel hurt.


This is an issue I have discussed, on the FAQ, a couple of times (last yesterday). 1) I explained an old situation when I responded to the situation with an angry attitude, and 2) role-played the scenario. After that we came up with 3) alternative responses.


At first I was very eager to try my latest snapshot to respond with optimism, like "good" or "great". As we discussed these responses seemed a little bit naive. My receiver asked my to validate the feeling and try to explain how I felt instead.


This actually seemed to take care of both my feelings, so I could let them go, and communicate back that I don't approve of that behavior. 4) We role-played the situation a couple of times with an increasingly clear picture of how to respond in accordance with my objectives. 5) The new name on my rock is now "Validate and communicate feelings".

Now we switched roles.

My receiver now became the Rocks introducer. He had written "Pleasing" on his rock. He mentioned the moment this rock was delivered to him.


We role-played the scenario, and came up with alternative responses (here we are allowed to be analytical). After that we role-played the scenario a couple of times. Then we moved to a situation when the rock was used in a more recent situation. We role-played also this situation with the initial scenario and in the new way without the "pleasing" rock.


We didn't have time to give the rock a new name but I think it should be something like "constructive" or "flexible".

The rocks process took quite some time in a positive way. We just ran out of time as we progressed in the role-playing.


We didn't have time for the snapshot process or the trading process but as we move on the rocks process will probably go faster next time. It's too soon to say if the rocks process has changed an old behavior, but it feels good and that must be something positive.

Thank you for sharing your process.


What you describe sounds like an attempt to use rocks as props to support thinking about your  personalities.


The TTP Rocks Process is essentially emotional and out of control and aims to re-program deep gut responses.


At the IV Tribe, we do not attempt to identify the Rocks in advance or to apply labels to them.  Medicinal Rocks emerge naturally as form patterns during the Snapshots Process.  We then "heat them up" and clarify them through role playing.


You might consider taking your feelings about being out of control to your Tribe as entry points.




Part of the TTP Rocks Process


includes going out of control

in order to identify

the Medicinal Rock



Clip: DOD

Wed, 21 Feb 2007


All Women Need  is Money

This photo was taken at a competition in June. The competition was between 9 women who had to have makeovers. They had every possible beauty treatment available to them over a period of time. Look at the before and after photos.



Conclusion: There are no ugly women, only poor women! If all women had the money ... good grief!


See more examples.

You might consider taking your feelings about women to your Tribe as an entry point.





Wed, 21 Feb 2007



In FAQ it says, "quotes from Ed in Red".

Who are the other answers from?

I put quotes from me from prior FAQ's in red when they appear in the left column.  I write the entire right column.

Fri, 23 Feb 2007


Taking Responsibility for Feelings

Hi Ed!

I have mentioned some problems regarding interaction with my family. Now I have come up with a snapshot of how I want to respond to emotionally hard situations.


First I would like to present an analogy I have. At the tennis court my friend have inspired me in always praising the opponent of a good hit when I miss (instead of complaining on myself). He didn't tell me to do it but he did it, and it works out great for me. Now I can easily go on to the next ball without caring for missed ones. This makes me a much better tennis player, and I enjoy the game a whole lot more. I will use a similar technique in my communication with people.

I realize that all my feelings are my own creation. If I'm feeling uncomfortable, it doesn't matter what external reasons are out there, I'm still the one to choose how to feel and respond. From now on I always respond to difficult situations with a optimistic "good", "perfect" or any other positive word. I can enjoy myself with figuring out what actually is good about what I heard, and there always is something. The point is that it is always my responses that makes the situation feel awkward, not the other persons comment. If I respond in a positive manner, it helps me stay on the right - livelihood track. I will start by doing this now. My experience of being able to respond how I want will evolve, I will slowly unknot this k-not.

By the way, I'm back in my trading system again and I have lowered the SL-risk threshold from 50% to 30%. It was hard to enter the positions again but it felt right when it was done. From now on I have one day of the month to update my system, and the rest of the time I follow it. The back testing will continue and the model will become more and more a part of me.

Thank you for sharing your process




One Group Recommends This Device

to assist children to identify feelings,

as in "Today, Megan is feeling happy."


In TTP,  we see feelings

rarely last a whole day


unless they are in a deep k-not.




Another Group Recommends This Device


to help children express how they feel.


In TTP we support people

expressing their feelings directly,

by developing and expressing forms.







Fri, 23 Feb 2007

Post Workshop Feedback

Noticing the Positive Intentions of Feelings

After going through situation in which I honestly use emotional control panel, my favorite benefit is feeling ownership of my actions. I find this surprising. I rarely feel like this.

Recent case and new response:

I really experience fear (reasonably so) and anger (my blood boils) in work situation (Boss's partner off charts disrespectful -- gut response is to choke him).


I am ok with it (fear) for first time. I really hate fear, but it is definitely a good thing. I stay with the emotions, experience the forms, and express my emotions to individual in reasonable manner. The issue dissipates.


The boss's partner is no longer in drama with me. (seems like magic and something I never experience before) He is now looking to experience emotions via drama with someone else.


Oddly enough partner believes I did him a favor. I experience the emotion and notice Fred lets go of the composite rock. The process is simple, yet k-not easy.

My past software: intellectual wrangling, rationalization, emotional explosions, occasional over reactions, jamming forms, manipulation (make other feel emotion they don't want), is a waste of time (years). Worse yet, none of the issues ever seem to dissipate and Fred just blows on the fire. The world is a place of composite rocks when I won't experience my forms.

I still have emotions that I really hate to experience, but this was a wonderful experience in being "not stuck". I notice that acceptance of my learning (knot being perfect) is also important to me.

Thanks much.

Thank you for sharing your process.



Fri, 23 Feb 2007

Associate Progress Report

As summarized in the action statement email I sent
last week, I’ve begun working on the TSP assignments on Ed’s website. I have been working projects in my evenings and weekends with a friend of mine. Our skills complement each other, with my knowledge of finance and trading and his knowledge of computers and coding.

I am happy to report that we have made good progress on finishing the three TSP assignments by my self-imposed deadline of February 25th. Attached to this email, please find the exponential average crossover TSP attached. We have matched Ed’s results to the penny. One caveat is that since we are using excel and VBA to build these models, we have not created an optimization matrix. Personally, I feel that the time achieving this in excel would be better spent doing research for Ed or building these models in a programming language where creating such a matrix would not be so manually intensive. That said, building these models initially in excel has been a great learning experience, as it gives one a strong idea of how the rules build on each other to create a complete trading system.

Given the limit on the size of files that I can send through email, I will forward my results on the second TSP, the support and resistance model, in a subsequent email. We have also matched Ed's results on this project to the penny and plan to begin working on the trend TSP shortly.

Obviously, I look forward to receiving any feedback
that you care to provide at this point in time.

Again, I cannot thank you enough for allowing us to work on these upcoming projects. We have already found our experience extremely fulfilling.


Good Job !

Thu, 22 Feb 2007


Feelings of Rejection


I like to report to FAQ my feelings of rejection.
Today I get an email for a local tribe leader, and the
email says that the local tribe has rejected my
application to join after I participate as an observer
for two sessions. At the moment I read the email, I
feel very upset and disappointed. I also feel
beaten-down, inferior, and sad. I feel that my heart
is beating faster, low side of my right stomach is
tight and pain, and my mind is blank and has no
ability to focus and think. I feel that I have desire
to cry.

I try to find the positive intentions of these
feelings. But when I have the desire to do so by
thinking and reasoning, I feel I can not get right
positive intentions any more. It might be just
positive intentions of these feelings that help me to
think and reflect about myself, TTP and feelings of
starting my own tribe. They also might motivate me to move forward faster. Yes, they might help me to grow.

It is amazing that when I am writing my feelings and
thoughts, I also get my own answers. Thank you Ed for giving us a space for us to explore our feelings and to help us to grow.

I am not sure whether it is proper to public my email
communication with the local tribe leader. But I feel
strongly that it might benefit other FAQ readers.

Best Wishes.

The Tribe leader may be considering your willingness to experience your feelings. You might consider taking your willingness to experience you feelings of rejection to your the Tribe as "entry" points.




People With Rejection K-nots


typically set up dramas

to justify their feelings.


Clip: http://www.editorrr.com/rejection_blog.jpg

Mon, 19 Feb 2007

Redbook on Feelings

Yesterday I picked up a magazine my wife has, the October 2006 edition of Redbook. On page 254 there is an article titled "help kids feel good about their feelings."  It is about helping kids understand their feelings and feel them instead of suppressing the feeling. Maybe the tribes are reaching a critical mass like the 100th monkey theory.

The Redbook article gives suggestions on "anger management," "feelings training" and "cooling off" as ways to make "bad" feelings go away.


In TTP we look for the positive intention of feelings.


From Redbook:


To help Isabelle cool off, Fleming, 38, got down to her daughter's eye level, held her hands, and told her to breathe slowly. "Once Isabelle was calmer, I helped her list what she was feeling," says Fleming. " 'You're mad Rosie took the toy without asking. You're mad that she broke it. And you're really mad because she doesn't care that she broke it.'" Listing feelings in simple terms helps kids unravel the anger to its root cause and make it manageable. Isabelle was able to resolve her anger by telling Rosie just how bad she felt. -- Redbook - October, 2006

Mon, 19 Feb 2007


Global Warming

Hi Ed,

How are you?

In your reply to the post on Sat Feb 17th "Levitation Disk" you mention the "new scientific method". As recent examples you quote global warming. I am curious to hear your thoughts on the subject and the recent increased media coverage. (which is just my perception, i don't have proof that there is actually an increase in media coverage of global warming).

You might find that the amount of "hot air"  that politicians are recently releasing into the atmosphere about Global Warming seems to correlate nicely with Global Warming.



Skillful Politicians

really know how


 to warm up a room.


Clip: http://www.abm-enterprises.net/


Mon, 19 Feb 2007


Violent Interaction Between TTP

& Marriage Counseling


I was thinking of calling you to discuss the effect of TTP on my marriage counseling (and marriage), but I ultimately decided that posting an email would be beneficial for the collective tribe. This is very difficult to convey via email for a number of reasons, but I am going to give it a try.

As noted in my prior FAQ, my wife and I have been in couples counseling for the better part of our nine year relationship and have been through a raft of therapists.


Though the relationship has steadily worsened over that period of time, we consider our current counselor to be the best of breed. Though most of our counseling sessions are hostile affairs, rife with accusation and blame, we often leave impressed by her knowledge of psychological theory, and her seeming ability to divine the many causes of our failed marriage.


Oddly, in spite of the hostile nature of our counseling sessions, and despite the continuing deteriorating of our marriage, we regard her as an indispensable link holding us together. We place our hope in her ability to fix us.

At the recent workshop in Reno I go through several TTP processes, including the Rocks Process. Through those experiences I am reconnected with many feelings I have grown to hate. I begin living in the moment. I begin enjoying feelings typically labeled as "negative." I cease blaming my wife for the way I feel, or my various problems at home or at work. I begin a process of healing and living.

My first counseling session after the TTP workshop is attended without my wife. Alone with the therapist, I tell her of my experience at the workshop. I detail the theories underlying TTP. I note the myriad changes since returning from the workshop. I share my feelings. First she expresses surprise, and then states that she is glad that my situation has improved.


She asks how this impacts our counseling. I state that, apart from its entertainment value, I am no longer interested in delving into the cause of my feelings. I state that my goal is to accept responsibility for my feelings, recognize and accept them, and use them as functional tools. I ask her to assist in bringing my feelings out. She expresses willingness to assist in my process. The session ends.

My wife and I attend the next session together. We talk about our emotions, and take turns sharing and receiving. The session is remarkably free of any hostility or drama. Though our counselor is unusually quiet and uninvolved, my wife and I think the session is very productive. It ends early (a rarity) and we go home feeling warm toward each other (another rarity).

Over the next week I become enmeshed with problems at work. I experience very strong emotions not fully experienced at the workshop, such as anger, stress, and agitation. I work to accept and feel these emotions. It is tiring without a supporting tribe, and I experience intense, recurring feelings of fear and confusion.


As I struggle with my feelings my wife begins to think I am purposefully withdrawing my love. She clearly does not like receiving my feelings when they are negative. She tries to manage my feelings in an effort to make me "feel better" and re-acquire my attention and love. She does special favors for me. She flatters me. She cooks special meals she thinks I will enjoy. When I express negative feelings in spite of her efforts to improve my emotional state, she becomes openly hostile.

At the next counseling session my wife is in full attack mode. She denounces my efforts to experience my feelings, which she labels as selfish disengagement from the family.


When I tell her that I am simply trying to reconnect with my feelings, she states that she is sick of my feelings. She states that I am making her miserable by constantly endeavoring to feel my emotions. When the diatribe ends, the counselor asks me to respond.


Though my frustrations levels are high, I encourage my wife to share her feelings. This produces a burst of insults and blame from my wife. I begin to feel myself flooding with anger, so I consciously resort to my Rock. I tell myself that I do not need to explode and leave the room (my past coping mechanism), which I am feeling desperate to do. I choose to disengage and listen.


To my surprise, the counselor then attempts to counter my strategy and draw me into the fray.


The session goes something like this:

Counselor: Do you have a response to what your wife just said?

Me: No. My wife is blaming and attacking. I am happy to hear her feelings, but I am not hearing anything right now but attacks. Right now I am getting very angry and will not respond to attacks.


Counselor: Have you disengaged? Where are you?

Me: I told you. I am willing to share feelings. But I am not responding to insults and attacks.

Counselor: OK. Share your feelings.

Me: I am angry. I am frustrated. I get very angry when my wife rejects my "negative" feelings. All feelings are important. I explained this to her. But she is not receiving my angry feelings.


I am open to feelings, but not attacks. I feel like this issue is more hers than mine. All I am doing is feeling my feelings. My wife is trying to pull me into a drama I do not want a part of.

Counselor: But aren't you now doing the same thing. Aren't you attacking your wife. I am not sure where you are right now.

Me: I am right here.

[extended silence]

Counselor: Where do you want to go with this?


[growing frustrated]

Me: I am right where I want to be.

Counselor: Do you understand that you need to engage in this process? [very frustrated]

Me: I do not have to engage in this process. This process is destructive. This is drama. I will share and receive feelings. But I will not receive her attacks. I am making a choice, here.

Wife: You see. He is unavailable. All he cares about are his own feelings. I am so sad. I don't even know him anymore. [She begins to cry]

During this particular colloquy, I experience the most intense feelings of frustration and anger. I feel a tension that burns across my entire body. It is as if an unstoppable force (my wife and therapist) is hitting an immovable object (me and my rock). The session ends a few minutes later without any meaningful change or resolution.

On the car ride home, I am not speaking to my wife. I am on the cell phone attempting to resolve a pressing business issue. The burning feelings of anger and frustration persist. However, I am also experiencing intense feelings of doubt and confusion about my rock, my feelings, my experience at the workshop, and my future. My mind begins to swim.

While I am talking on the telephone I begin to notice a sharp pain when I take deep breaths. By 2:00 a.m. that morning my back is in spasms. I cannot take anything but the shortest breaths without feeling a searing pain in my back. I take muscle relaxants for the next two days and lay in bed. When I awake my back feels better and my intense feelings (emotional and physical) begin to subside somewhat.

As I write this post, I continue to experience those same feelings of anger and confusion, though to a lesser degree. I feel angry toward my wife for not being able to receive my "negative" feelings.


I am confused about how to bring my wife more fully into the TTP process.


Likewise, I do not know how to proceed with my therapist, who no longer holds the keys to the kingdom. Finally, I am bewildered (and scared) by what I just experienced, and do not know how to integrate it into what I learned at the workshop. I would appreciate hearing any thoughts you might have.

You and your wife have a nine-year pattern of ménage-a-therapist.


The therapist is helping you hold your relationship together and is also a form of medication to protect you from feeling deeper feelings - like your feelings about not receiving each other's feelings.


In Reno, you come to see that feelings all have positive intentions and you have an experience of sending and receiving feelings without judgment - and without reacting.


The session in which your counselor is quiet, your session goes well.


When your counselor tries to force you to "react" to each other, the old patterns ignite.




TTP works by receiving and acknowledging others, not by invalidating others when they fail to receive you.


You cannot force someone to receive your feelings, particularly if they consider them "negative."


You cannot "process manage" someone or "fix" someone without invitation or without starting a fight.


You can make a decision to receive all your wife's feelings, especially her feelings of not wanting to receive some of your feelings.


You can make a decision to receive your own body feelings, especially what your back is trying to tell you.


When you come to appreciate the positive intention in every communication your wife makes, and in every feeling your body generates, you may attain the zero point.




In Boxing and in Marriage


the job of the referee

is not always to end the fight.



Clip: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/


Mon, 19 Feb 2007


Apprenticeship Feedback

Dear Ed,

I hope this email finds you in good health and happiness, what a super cool experience it is hanging out with you! While writing this I recall the ‘painful experiences’ emotionally and many hours working late into the night, I now see that all this is as an essential part of the ‘realisation’ for me leading to my discovery of truths about myself and trading (you nailed it when you offer the blue pill or the red pill). Sometimes you have to go through the process and not attempt to go around it, I went through this with you by my side, I won’t forget this, thank you for being right there next to me.

You have taught me much about unconditional support, really caring and showing interest in the feelings of all those around me. I want you to know that I will take this wisdom and also pass it on, somehow I know it will eventually get round to you again!

Thank you so much for your hospitality!

Warm Regards,

Thank you for sharing your process.

Sat, 17 Feb 2007


Levitation Disk

see Radial Momentum

Mr. Seykota:

You write in your web site about radial momentum:
"The Bernoulli Principle assumes (1) a closed-loop system of varying cross section, (2) constant density of the fluid and (3) no flow motivation.


While this situation might obtain in a theory, in practice there is simply no such thing as a closed hydraulic loop in which fluid circulates with no flow motivation. The velocity in such a loop would have to be zero, so the equation would only be valid at v = 0, at which point lift would also be zero."

This is different from what we learnt at school where the Bernoulli Principle was demonstrated by running tap water through a Venturi tube. This seemed to work just fine. One could easily see that the pressure varied in according to different cross sections.

Water is neither frictionless nor totally incompressible. The water in the experiment poured out into the sink so it was not a closed system.

To me it seems that the levitation disk demonstrates the same thing. The water discharges from the rim of the disk at ambient pressure. When it was closer to the centre it had higher velocity and therefore lower pressure. Why isn't this exactly equivalent to the experiment we did with the Venturi tube?

Standard physics textbooks contain many curious explanations for fluid flow phenomena.





The Classic Venturi Tube Demonstration


Note: The pump motivating the flow and the exit chamber receiving the effluent are conspicuously absent.


Also note: The heading "Inviscid, Incompressible Fluid Flow" is unrealistic.


In the diagram, the pressures at the two ends of the are equal.  Therefore, there is nothing to motivate flow.


To motivate flow, you have to have more pressure upstream.


In that case, the pressure is greater in the chamber to the left of the pinch point, falls just down stream from the pinch point, due to radial expansion of the fluid and then rises to ambient pressure at the effluent opening.






The Old Scientific Method



1. Find some way to spend money and / or expand government control.


2. Invent some "science" to justify (1).


3. Repeat


The New Scientific Method:


Recent examples:

Global Warming;

Minimum Wage in the US;

Price Controls in Venezuela.







Sat, 17 Feb 2007

Rocks Process Feedback


Dear Ed,

In line with my commitment to report my experience to your FAQ readers on my RP (Rock Process) at Incline Village:

Before I begin, I want to thank all the members of the Incline Village Tribe for their incredible support and encouragement, also for sharing their wisdom that is handed to me through my new rock.

The tribe spends at least 4 hours working through the Snapshot process, this process proves to awaken and heighten many feelings within those tribe members who are live with feelings.

My personal experience results in tapping my foot repeatedly on the floor and crying, I am unable to speak, words are difficult to deliver, the tribe encourages me to do more, I do more, I also log this feeling for the RP session.

RP Experience

Ed suggests that my rocks process start with a “role play” he is aware of a very important meeting I intend to have, and he is also aware of some strong feelings of sadness about this meeting.

Two members of the tribe ‘play’ key executives who might be attending the meeting, their job is to try to simulate the meeting as best they can, they both do a great job. I find that this role playing activity promotes more “conscious” thought and I find I am unable to locate any live feelings.

During my role play I show a “form” which is to move my hands, Ed sees this and asks me to do more of this, crank it up, moments later I am fully shaking both hands and arms. This movement promotes pain in my shoulders, though this pain I experience memory recall.


I recall walking around at school alone with a heavy rucksack on my shoulder I notice I keep swapping shoulders to carry it around because its so heavy.

This memory extended to further insights into the difficulty I have “interacting” with other children at school and later with other students in my academic life. I notice I avoid attempting to engage “socially” in large groups, I also notice this pattern extends in my adult life. Although I have learnt ways to deal with this situation (usually avoid it), I have never attempted to understand the origin of my behaviour, see its positive intention embrace it and at the same time acknowledge new ways to approach the experience.


We ‘role play’ the most vivid experience I can remember, this is me at school attempting to play with some other children, this attempt fails, I am rejected and I shut down, go dumb and walk away with a ‘sad’ smile, (this process is my old rock/my old way of dealing with the experience).

Ed asks me to try to locate any person close to me that might have similar ways of dealing with this sort of experience; I notice that my father carries these tendencies. I also report to Ed many other similar experiences where this has come up throughout my life.

Having role played this experience the tribe now has enough resources to come up with a whole new set of ways to respond to this, and any other similar experience. We list the following

Be Empathic
Radiate Contentment
Smile on approach
Appreciate and value yourself
Check out why they are leaving
Get really good at the game
5% of the time walk away, don’t take it personally
Use Humor
Listen to conversation with interest
Offer new games
Get feedback, tell your feelings and show emotion
Breathe and consider resources
Join a common interest group
Find new friends through networks of friends
Notice your feelings – keep them turned on
Offer new ideas and resources

The tribe re-runs the role play and this time at the point of rejection, my father appears and offers me a rock that I ‘should’ use to deal with this situation, I reject it, I don’t want it, I feel it’s not the “only” option.

We then role play again, this time a tribe member plays messenger whom I can trust and offers a new “empty” rock containing new ways to deal with the experience. The rock is empty BUT if I want, I can fill it up with the list of responses produced by the tribe. I accept this empty rock and fill it up through squeezing the rock with each new approach on the list.

The new rock feels good, we test the new rock by running the same role plays, I notice in my role play I no longer feel stuck right before interacting with others. I am able to positively and confidently present my findings during my role play meeting too.

When we are complete, I thank each role play member and release each character from the role-play.

We all “check out” I am delighted to hear that other tribe members can relate to my experience, and find it insightful to themselves, perhaps I am not the only one to benefit from this process.

I notice I feel something has shifted within that feels naturally good, I now have new resources to deal with these experiences, and I fully intend to use them.

Thank you Incline Tribe, Good Job!

On a side note Ed, it seems that that this process is very powerful, and requires TTP knowledge and some form of Rocks Process ‘experience’ from at least one participating member of the tribe. Personally having experienced this first hand, may I take this opportunity to emphasize to your FAQ readers that those intending on using it might consider that their tribe have a ‘Crystal’ clear understanding of the process, and that they understand the importance of acting responsibly, diligently and sensitively when processing this experience.

I wish all the FAQ readers good health and happiness and that they all find their Right Livelihood!

Perhaps the Crystal Precedes the Rock


Clip: http://www.smokindragon.com/



Thank you for sharing your process.

Fri, 16 Feb 2007


Investing With Your Company

Hi Ed,

I don't know why, but I was surprised to hear back from you. As you know, a "cult like" reputation has been created around you. Since it seems to have been created by other people, rather than yourself, it is probably well deserved. I sometimes listen to your "Market Wizards" CD to keep me motivated. (And no, I am definitely not subject to idol worship.)

I've recently contacted a number of "trend following" capital management companies and was surprised to see that some of the better known ones have recently gone belly-up. Others have made no profits (zero!) during the past 3 years of the US stock bull market. A few require a $500,000 minimum investment and a net worth of $10,000,000.

About me: I'm 51, very happily married for 30 years, one son, one grandson, I meditate 2-3 hours per day; I'm healthy, happy and I love life - and I do not fear death, nor do I fear the financial markets (Ed, which one is worse?). I am completely sold on "trend following" and I would be a long term, hands off, no-panic investor.

I don't know if you would be willing to work with me or if you would be willing to accept an additional account with an initial investment amount as low as $100,000? (Or what would be your minimum if...?)

Anyway, thank you for your reply and I'll look forward to hearing back from you.


Ed writes:

I wonder what you have in mind.


Contributor writes:


I am a "high net worth individual" and am interested in placing some money with you. I successfully trade much of my own money using diversified trend following methods and seek to further diversify. I am a "non-questioning, non-panic" investor, once established with an investment company.

Thank you in advance for your response.

These days, one futures contract can move several thousand dollars per day - so with diversification into, say a dozen instruments, you might normally experience daily fluctuations of 5-10 k, sometimes much more.

If you want to keep your risk per trade at about 1/2 percent, then, setting 1/2 % to $5000, you get 100% = $1,000,000.

If you trade a $100,000 account, you might have to experience 5% entry risk.

I would have to know a lot more about you before agreeing to subject you to this kind of volatility.



Trading Futures Without Sufficient Capital


can be a wild ride.



Clip: http://www.werenotafraid.com/


Fri, 16 Feb 2007


System Research: 40 x 11

Hi Ed,

Is 40 futures markets over 11 years a big enough database to:

1) Test a trading system?

2) Feel confident the test results are a valid picture of what the system probably will do over the next decade?

Your expert advice is greatly valued.

Yes, You can test a trading system on a data base of any number of markets over any length of time.


A back-test does not generate a "valid picture" of the (non-existing) future.


Your feelings of confidence come from within you, not from the test results.


You might consider re-writing your question in SVO-p.

Fri, 16 Feb 2007

Moving On

I read the "Moving On" segment on FAQ moments ago ... Although I have not attended the Incline Tribe for over 2 years, the work still has a profound effect on me. I keep a journal and I am grateful to report that I still have AHA moments, mostly from the pure Sending and Receiving we experienced.

My life has taken shape musically from the Tribe work as well. Believe it or not, I have taken up the Banjo. I run it through a Marshall stack, with some Echoplex and some Fuzz Face on top - sort of a "metal banjo." I truly believe it is the way the instrument is meant to be played. You should hear me do Deep Purple's "Smoke on the Water" or Black Sabbath's "Iron Man." It will bring tears to your eyes.

Thank you for sharing your process





Nechville Meteor Banjo


Sadly, this is about the only thing

Bella Fleck and Ed Seykota

have in common.


Clip: http://www.nechville.com/meteorgallery.html

Fri, 16 Feb 2007


Childlike Emotionalism

It takes a lot more integrity, character, and courage to be a conservative than it does to be a liberal. That's because at its most basic level, liberalism is nothing more than childlike emotionalism applied to adult issues.


Source: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/



I can identify strong themes of childlike emotionalism in the platforms of all major political parties.

Fri, 16 Feb 2007


Trading Systems

Regarding your previous comment

Deer Ed,

Regarding your comments (please see below), I would like to put my question in a different way if possible; Do you think all mechanical systems have to work in all markets in order to be robust, including stocks?


For example, in the simple support-resistance tutorial, the optimal trend definition and trading lines are around 120/30 for Gold. What if you trade bonds, or stocks in Europe or somewhere else. The optimal solution is different most of the time.

In my sentence, “according to many traders” refers to the traders mentioned in the Market Wizards book, and I unfortunately I don’t have a chance to ask this question to them, you are the only one that I could contact directly via trading tribe.

Therefore I would greatly appreciate if you could comment on it again. Thanks in advance.

In my previous email I wrote;

According to many traders, the systems that we develop should work in all markets in order to be robust. But on the other hand, each market has its own characteristics and therefore it is very hard to come with a system which works in all markets. This is especially the case for the stock market (individual stocks). At this point, should I use a different system for stocks and another system
for futures etc.

You replied as;

To paraphrase your contribution:

1. Many traders say something "should" work.
2. You have difficulties doing it.
3. You ask me what you "should" do.

FAQ does not tell people what they "should" do. See ground rules.

You might consider:

1. asking "many traders" how they do it.
2. taking your questions to your Tribe.


I do not have much clarity on the identities of "many traders," the meaning of "all markets," or the meaning of "robust."


In addition, FAQ does not tell people what they "should" do.  See Ground Rules.


You might consider re-writing your question in SVO-p.


Thu, 15 Feb 2007


Experience Positive Feelings


I feel that most TTP works focus on supporting people to experience forms of negative feelings. Might it be beneficial to fully experience positive feelings? In traditions of the country where I come from, people control all sorts of feelings.

In TTP we hold all feelings have positive intentions. 


The feelings we call "negative" are typically in k-nots. 


We can untie these k-nots by experiencing the feelings and considering their positive intentions.

Fri, 16 Feb 2007


Tired of Being the Snack


Having sustained yet another painful loss on today’s futures market, and having experienced some amazing ‘non-coincidences’ as described below, the Under-Fred Network is speaking very loudly to me these days that it’s time - just plain time, finally, and with zero resistance on my part … to undo the k-nots. So I’m coming in, Ed - much the worse for wear and tear, I confess.

Gosh-honest truth is, I’ve been a fan of yours for years. Like a lot of folks, I’ve read most of ‘the’ trading books and read of various traders, but none that seemed to ‘get it’ as much as yourself.

Despite my shortcomings, in some amazing ways you and I have much in common, including my sense & understanding of our life purpose - but clearly have much at variance as well. You’ve been wildly successful, as have I in some ways, but my guess is that unlike you my “drawdowns” – both personal and financial – have gotten to the point that it’s just too painful to avoid this any longer.


I have a wife and daughter that depend on me, and I’ve been letting them down for too long. Years. At least 7 years, in fact. Now, today, this moment, I feel like I’m letting down my best friend and futures-trading business partner. So enough is enough - I’m coming home.

Without feeding the ego monster, please permit me to say that I am truly not the complete mental idiot that my trading record and personal choices would otherwise indicate. I graduated from a major university with a degree in Computer Science, and with some distinction (and then some failure). I served honorably as an officer aboard nuclear-powered attack submarines during the Cold War, and with some distinction (and then some failure). Financially, I made millions of dollars working in the Internet software industry - and then had lots of failure.

Whatever rocks I’m carrying, they’ve been getting the best of me time and again, and I’m just flat tired of it. My conscious mind is aware of a few rocks, including some associated with a brief but apparently powerful bit of childhood abuse.


There’s no escaping the fact that I’ve exhibited some seriously self-destructive behavior. But while I’ve seen some dramatic improvement over the last couple of years on a personal and spiritual basis,


I’ve been unable to consistently trade profitably, and I know on some level that this is something I have to do, or, at a bare minimum, go through.

Though I am employed in a partnership today with a good friend, have a paid-for home over my head, a car that works, and a wife and daughter that love me, I am for all intents and purposes broke in terms of liquid cash - and a living testimonial that the Under Fred and Fred can serve up just as much drama as it takes to force the dropping of those painful yet familiar rocks. This is all my responsibility, but I clearly need help.

There is no cause and effect, I know that by now, but whatever it is inside me that’s been eating me alive is done having its snack as far as I’m concerned.


I’m hoping that we’ll be able to personally meet soon, and that I’ll eventually be able to write up testimonial that’ll be as powerful as it is truthful.

There are no coincidences, and so I am both thankful and responsible for the non-coincidences that have been served up lately – both the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’ ones. The bad: ass-kicking monetary losses, poor choices, broken trust - including my self-trust. The good: reconciling with my wife, having a solidly good friend or two - and I know of Ed Seykota. And I live in Austin , Texas .

So - enough. I get it. I need your help, Ed.

With thanks in advance and great respect,

You might consider taking the feeling of something inside you eating you to your Tribe as an entry point.



The Wasp, Ampulex Compressa


injects venom into the cockroach's brain

to neutralize it's escape reflex.


The wasp then takes the passive cockroach

by one of its antennae

and leads it back to the wasp's burrow.


The wasp lays eggs on the roach's' stomach,

the larvae burrow into the roach,

and emerge later as adult wasps.



Experiencing Your Feelings

at a Tribe Meeting


can help you find what's eating you.





Thu, 15 Feb 2007


More Important then Trading

see previous Sun, 11 Feb 2007

Dear Ed,

working through your FAQ today and noticed I wrote: I also notice that I am still rowing around the more important issues of life [more important than trading].

I feel somewhat bad about that wording! I incredibly respect all traders, especially you. What a challenge to earn money in the markets. What an opportunity.

Wording means that I am somewhat fed up with it due to a missing work-life-balance during the last three years.

Good Trades and Good Luck!

You might consider taking your feeling about offending others by telling your truth to your tribe as an entry point.



If You Have a Rock

about standing up for yourself


you may feel

you are being too assertive


when you tell others how you feel.


Clip: http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/assertiveness/how-to-be-more-assertive.html

Thu, 15 Feb 2007


Managing Risk

Dear Chief Ed,

In your trading rules posted on FAQ - 14 Nov 2004 -
The basic Trend Trading rules are:

Trade with the Trend
Cut Losses and Ride Winners
Manage Risk

Do you mean ...

Manage initial risk ?


Risk is a combination of the possibility of a loss and the magnitude of the loss.


We register risk in our bodies as a feeling of fear.


One way to manage various forms of risk, including prospective risk, initial risk, open risk, and unconscious risk it to make sure your feeling of fear is an ally, fully functioning on your emotional instrument panel.


In our medicinal culture, some people attempt to medicate fear, rather than manage risk.


Professor Moreno, University of Virginia reports on research on locating and modifying the "fear gene" stathmin that expresses in the amygdala.


Others feel that emotions inter-connect and are not simple properties of specific locations in individuals; emotions arise out of social interactions.  As such, emotional modification is a Tribal endeavor.  Inspirational leaders know all about this.


In general, people with willingness to experience fear and other feelings are better risk managers than those who have fear in k-nots or fear under the influence of narcotics.


You might consider taking your feelings about risk to your Tribe as an entry point.



One Positive Intention of Fear


is risk management.



Clip: http://www.bcysth.ca/photo_gallery/