Oct 11 - 20, 2005
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Questions
(Quotes
from Ed in Red)
|
Answers |
Thu, 20 Oct 2005
Hotseat Beating
Dear Ed,
At this weeks meeting,
security guards from the CBOT thought someone was receiving a beating.
Another great meeting. |
The pits might be a good place to
conduct Tribe meetings.

Patterns We Learn Early in Life
seem to repeat
in
various ways
Clip:
http://briem.ismennt.is/4/4.3b/4.3.1.
beating.gif |
Thu, 20 Oct 2005
Judges
Dear Ed,
the last CIty] Tribe meeting on Tuesday was very interesting. On the
hotseat I initially talked about how it is difficult for me to handle profit
give-backs or missing opportunities (whereas I have no problems with
realizing losses), how I anchor at my equity maximum value and experience
every move down from it as a loss.
I explained that I want to suffer for
some reason and how angry I was about it. When I started to show forms, I
was screaming furiously and hitting my thigh with my left fist and
stomping with my left foot. But during experiencing these form, the
screaming suddenly changes and I start shouting: "I deserve it."
My
fist is not hitting anymore but both fists are up in the air in a winner
pose. I feel happy and relieved shouting "I deserve it!". I feel that I do
not have to suffer to be successful but that I deserve to be successful,
period. In a moment of clarity I feel that I always have to suffer to be
successful because some judge tells me if you do not suffer, you have not
deserved it.
And suddenly I see that this is crap. When we are raised we
hear about the original sin (ok, only if you are raised in a Catholic
environment) and how all the great men had to go through great suffering
before they were successful or happy or whatever. But suddenly I see that I
don't need all of that. I just can be successful. I deserve it, I don't have
to suffer.
During the next round I also start saying: "always do what the others expect
from you" on and on and raising my index finger like a blaming schoolmaster.
But the word also change into "b---s---, b---s--- b---s---". Again a judge
(the same?) telling me that others are watching me, that I have to fulfill
expectations that I have to work harder (and I guess suffering is again not
far away).
For me this was the best hotseat experience so far. I do not know what is
the next step. Can I learn to accept the judge as someone who wants to keep
me on my toes but decline to suffer for anything that is part of life and
trading?
As for the new [City] tribe, so far I am not even receiving spam in
mailbox. But there are a few people that have some interest. Let's see where
our combined Freds take us.
All the best, |
Thank you for sharing your process.

Judgment May Feel Different
depending if it arrives as an imposition.
from outside
or
bubbles up from within.
Clip:
http://www.instituteofcustomerservice.com/res/
images/2003725141935_You%20decide%202.jpg |
Wed, 19 Oct 2005
Tribe Meeting
Report
Hello Ed,
I arrive at incline Village and settle in for the snap shot process. As my
turn comes up I feel pretty good about my current snapshot and the progress
I make since the last meeting, I’m anxious to present to the group as I feel
things are moving in the right direction for me.
Snapshot Process
As I begin my report I have confidence that my fellow members will see the
improvement since the last session and I feel pretty good about my
presentation. My snap shot, entitled “Sticking to My System” encompasses me
taking 20 trades generated from my trading systems without hesitation or
reservation, just stick to my system. Fourteen of the 20 trades are
complete. I grade myself accordingly and present an overview of my progress
to the tribe.
Feedback from the tribe is insightful and brings feelings bubbling from the
mid-torso area up to the upper chest area. Two of my fellow tribe members
call me on my system and conclude, based on my presentation, that I don’t
have a system. Since in my mind I’m convinced I have a system and I follow
it for 14 of 20 trades, the feeling pump goes full throttle and nutso as I
listen to the feedback. I get an “I don’t think so” response from one member
in specific and he mentions that he does not believe I have a system at all,
this comment stays in my mind for the remainder of the session.
What I hear from my tribe members is that I may believe that I have a system
in place but in fact what I consider to be a system is not what two
successfully consistent traders in the tribe consider to be an industrial
strength type trading system.
Also, I hear that I have no accountability for
my trades since I cannot articulate an objective audit process for my
trading system. Wow, talking about being frank, my tribe members are very
frank indeed, in fact, something I now like a lot about the tribe - brutal
honesty. The level of honesty the tribe provides certainly cuts through the
BS objections/excuses that float in my mind and keep my feelings bottled
inside. I Love this stuff, I’m growing and it feels great!
After the snap shot process I commit to myself to work through and embrace
the feelings that come up as I consider the feedback. As I work trough the
feelings I come to the realization that my tribe is correct. I don’t have a
trading system; I have an entry system with subjective stops and exits and
at best a “whatever I want it to look like” audit process.
I think about the latter for a couple of days after the meeting and conclude
that a complete mechanical trading system, with embedded audit process, is
what I put in place to move onto the next level of successful trading. I
commit to myself to do the latter.
Tribe Meeting
We have a full house for this tribe meeting, largest gathering since I
joined. Lots of energy flow as we go through the drumming at the beginning
of the meeting, we get a good flow as the drums subside. All of the
participants indicate they want to take the hot seat, the process begins and
I settle in as a receiver. Good sessions all around and then comes my turn.
I take the mid-torso feelings from snapshot into the hot seat. This time I
get right into the feelings, no thinking, just going with feelings. I have
some great amount of feelings as I fling, jump, stomp, kick, reach, and yell
around the room. I really don’t recall the forms as I go through them I just
let my mind go, and go with the flow.
One form comes clear to me, it’s me
taking what looks like a reverse shower process, I begin at my toes and pull
up feelings from my toes all the way up to behind my head and then toss the
feelings out of my mouth. I go through that form at lease twice. Also, for
this session I find myself yelling like mad, deep down yells, from the
bottom of my belly yells, they feel Tony-the-Tiger GR-R-REAT!. I sweat
rant, kick and swing more and more, I just repeat over and over until I’m at
zero point, a sense of clam, tranquility and peace of mind take over my
entire body, it feels sacred.
In past sessions I have a tendency to think about the process I go through
it and I visualize lots of stuff, faces, animation, cartoons, construction
projects, all sorts of stuff. The process manager instructs me to just let
go of the thoughts and go with the forms to really get into the feelings. I
feel, for the first time, I do just that, and I really fell a much more
focused and centered at the zero point this time around. This is progress on
my part as I continue on my path of personal growth, fulfilling stuff!
Next I get my shot as a process manager for the first time; it proves to be
a strong learning experience. I process manage a gentleman that is cross
pollinating from another tribe. He is great to work with as he has several
hot, live issues. I quickly learn that the best way to begin the process is
to get the sender into his/her forms quickly and then with gentle guidance
let he sender find, develop and express the forms. Overall the tribe meeting
was long and grueling, but at the end of it, even while feeling totally
spent, it feels just plain good.
One thing I did take away and is important to note for me is that the more work
I do, the more things I find that need work. Also, I notice since like the
second or third Tribe session I attend, that solutions / answers for things I
work on just seem to flow into my mind. For instance, I find myself talking
with people and literally saying out loud solutions / answers to what I think
about and/or work on. Powerful stuff this Tribe process, really powerful!
Thank you Ed and my fellow Tribe members, your effort and support are
greatly appreciated. |
Thank you for sharing your process.

Shower
Another opportunity to go with the flow
Clip:
http://usa.hudsonreed.com/brand_1/
lifestyle/shower-A3219a_ls.jpg |
Wed, 19 Oct 2005
Trade Timing
Hi Ed,
What do you think about this statement:
When the S&P500 is above its 50-Day Moving Average,
it's time to go long.
When the S&P500 is below its 50-Day Moving Average,
it's time to go short.
When the S&P500 is equal to its 50-Day Moving Average,
do nothing.
Thank you very much for your highly educational site. |
Prices are either above or below their
historical averages mostly always, only exactly at their averages for
fleeting instants.
If you keep going long while the S&P is
above its 50-day MA, you soon wind up with all the contracts.
If you have questions about a trading
signal (such as a crossover method issues) you can test them in the context
of a full trading system. See TSP above.

Time
Some think of it as an interval,
others think of it as a point.
No
one can prove
it
exists at all.
Clip:
http://www.zengifts.com/images/clock.jpg |
Tue, 18 Oct 2005
Report from
[City] Tribe
Hi Ed,
Hope all is well. I want to share yesterday's meeting of the [City] Tribe,
which I think is our best ever (seems to be a trend for us).
My Hot seat is very intense, I bring some commitment issues with my
girlfriend to the meeting. I start by pushing my hands away from my body,
the tribe does a great job supporting me. I go through a few forms without
really getting to the bottom of things until I am aware of a tingling
sensation similar which is very familiar to me from the breath work we do
three weeks ago.
The Process
Manager does a great job facilitating the
process, after I experience the tingling for a while he encourages me to try
the movement with my arms again. This time my arms start pushing both hands
above my head. My tribe thinks I am selling something in the pit, but I
really feel like I am serving in a tennis match (I play tennis for a big
part of my youth).
I morph into just swinging one arm over my head, faster
and faster. Finally I start swinging down more and more towards the ground
as if I am beating something and then I get my insight: I am my dad beating
the s--- out of me.
I don't have a conscious memory of this ever happening
but I am intending to ask my mom about it. I keep going with the beating,
after a short break The Process Manager encourages me to really get into the feelings of
being my dad and beating me.
I feel very relaxed and sit down. I integrate
the feelings about my commitment issue and the beating and have a strong
urge to vomit, I experience that feeling several times and try to stay with
the maximum pressure point in my chest (where I feel I am about to vomit)
for as long as possible, my tribe encourages me to take it all the way.
Finally I feel a great release and am totally calm. I sink into my chair
sweaty and exhausted.
The Process Mnager asks me about my relationship with my girlfriend
and I realize that it is not really about her. I don't feel resentful or mad
at my dad. I feel almost sad for him. I feel I just integrate and accept a
big part of my childhood I am not previously aware of. Thank you to my tribe
for your great support.
I feel other members have a great session as well. One tribe member takes
his issue with his girlfriend into the tribe and really goes for it. In my
eyes yesterday is his best session so far. I am also very happy and excited
for another tribe member who usually has a hard time getting into his
feelings and is creating drama for the tribe. After our breath work he seems
to get more into his feelings.
Thanks to my tribe and to you Ed, for all you do. Your work makes a big
difference in my life. |
Thank you for sharing your process.

Acting out Anger on Children
(rather than experiencing it internally)
can
tie them in k-nots.
Clip:
http://www.redcross.ca/article.asp?id=003544&tid=030 |
Mon, 17 Oct 2005
Hotseat Follow-Up
Hi Ed,
I hope you are well. My hotseat experience
follows:
Our last tribe meeting consisted of a marathon
session in which each of us took the hotseat.
I
expected an intense meeting to follow in light of an
unusually intense drumming session.
As we began, I felt some feeling of anxiety in my
stomach carried over from the afternoon session.
As a
handful of people began taking the hotseat one after
another to experience their forms, I notice my anxiety
slowly dissolving. When it was my turn to take the
hotseat I did not feel a hot issue. I did, however,
feel I didn't want to break the chain of everyone
taking the hotseat that evening.
The process manager and tribe began receiving me
and noticing as forms began to present themselves. I
felt their encouragement and let my body do what it
wanted to do. Intense breathing, reaching, and
stretching forms follow and I experience them fully. I
feel a tremendous calm and empowerment afterward.
I
appreciate that you do not necessarily need a hot
issue to take the hotseat. Rather, experiencing forms
and feelings in any circumstance can lead to the
benefit of being more centered and more willing to
experience your feelings outside of tribe meetings. |
Thank you for sharing your process. |
Mon, 17 Oct 2005
Down about 40
Pounds since Workshop
Hi Ed!
Here is a word document containing a chart of my weight since a couple
of weeks after the July Breathwork session.
I am down about 40 pounds so far. I am eating a very healthy diet, and I
am exercising regularly. I feel great too.
I am now rid of a large portion of my excess weight, and I am focusing
less on the scale and more on general fitness. I intend to begin a
strength training regimen in addition to the cardio/aerobic work that I
do for the past few months. Putting on some muscle might raise my
resting metabolic rate a bit and support a sustainable healthy lifestyle
that includes more activity.
Thank you for serving as a role model for me. I hope that by updating
you on my results I return the service to you.

250 to 210 since the Workshop
|
Thank you for sharing your process. |
Mon, 17 Oct 2005
TSP: Animation
For Bliss
Dear Ed,
I reproduced the results for the "Exponential Crossover System" for both
parameter sets (150/15) and (325/85) to the penny. I am using my own
back testing engine written in C#. I had to change the type of some variables
of my back testing engine from float (4 byte) to double (8 byte).
I created an animated GIF for the "Exponential Crossover System". The GIF
contains a graphic showing how bliss depends on the "Slow Averaging Time",
the "Fast Averaging Time" and the "Heat". I simply generated different
frames for different values of heat, so the heat changes with the time as
the animation runs. You can open the GIFs in a web browser or other software
which is capable of playing animated GIFs.
 |
Nice graphic.
For the animation, see TSP / EA / Reader
Feedback. |
Mon, 17 Oct 2005
Math Mystery Solution.
Hi Ed:
A word is missing in this submission to TSP title, "Math Mystery
Solution". The correct sentence is:
"Well this works because price data (decimal) has very FEW
significant figures and high as well as low precision IEEE754 can
store it well." |
Thank you for the catch. |
Mon, 17 Oct 2005
Pollinator
Report
IV Tribe Meeting of Oct 13th.
Hi Ed
Here is the pollinator report, as per commitment:
Last Thursday, I visit Incline Village Trading Tribe. Wow! Being
there is akin to stepping into a different world altogether. A
world where things just are, and time stands still.
Unsure whether NV is an hour ahead of CA (it is not), I actually
reach well ahead of 2pm, Ed is in great health and good cheer. I
ask him if I am early or late; he responds, characteristically,
"You seem to be here about now". We chat for half an hour, mostly about
his TSP precision issues and about my research.
Then people start filing in, we begin just after 2 PM with "15min
Snapshots", where everyone updates their previous Snapshots and
on their progress toward them. I get feedback on my two Snapshots,
relating to lack of clarity in my motivation and emotion.
We have
dinner watching a beautiful sunset on the lake. TTP session begins after
dinner
and goes on until close to 3 AM. Some very intense work from all the
participants. Great commitment, great support, great insights.
I learn to manage a hotseat by doing one and watching many in action.
I take the hotseat early and everyone is fresh and enthusiastic
in supporting my forms. My issue is with procrastination, and I
have various forms, only some of which I remember, like beating
myself and humming and screaming, but I get an Aha out of it that
the positive intention of my procrastination is to get me to
fully experience my feelings of loss and sadness, which I intend to
take to my next hotseat!
Listening and talking to Ed, especially after [another hotseat],
I also get an insight into how the process works in dissolving
issues that seemingly do not relate to what one takes to the
hotseat.
I make a mental picture of various forms being magnets
beneath a sheet of thin cardboard and issues sticking to them
above the cardboard like little pieces of metal, and TTP demagnetizing
the forms, and the issues fall off. Above the surface one sees no
correlation between the hotseat and the issues resolving almost
like magic.
Anyway, this is the first time I have been in a trading tribe
this big and after participating in 11 hot seat sessions in a
row, many of them highly intense, I sleep like a log well into
the morning and find I am the last person still there! Ed and I
chat for a while about various topics, and I watch him unload his
dishwasher for the 4th time in 20 hours (Does he even load the
dishwasher? When? I only notice him constantly removing the clean
dishes. Hmm.) and then I leave.
I get back home and notice a change in my reaction to
procrastination. I no longer feel bad or guilty about not doing
what I "should". In fact, as soon as I let myself procrastinate
all the more without judgment, I find that I no longer want to!
Well, maybe I just want to put off putting things off, as
someone says during my TTP.
I wish to thank Ed and the IV Tribe for this experience of
"the simple support and [no] resistance system". |
Thank you for sharing your process.

Something Deeper
accounts for these iron filings
coming to attention
Clip:
http://louvre.tribe.net/tribe/upload/
photo/97c/ca6/97cca6ac-691a-4d8b-9de4-
0c2bf07adc30.medium |
Sun, 16 Oct 2005
Skid Function
Not Working
in Commercial Software
Packages
Ed,
I am not able to get Skid working in the commercial software packages. Is
there anyone out there that has matched your 150-15 EMA Cross Over system in
TradersStudio, TradeStation, MetaStock, or some other commercial software
package?
In the commercial software when an order is triggered, they can access Open
and High for that day, but they are not able to access the Open and High for
the next day when the order actually fills. So, I can't get the SkidPrice to
match by one day.
Does anyone know how do I access the Open and High on the day the limit
order fills in commercial software packages to get the SkidPrice that would
actually happen in real world trading that matches Ed's results? |
The operation you cite seems fairly
basic. You might consider reading the instruction manuals thoroughly.
Let me know if your software cannot account for
skid when filling an order. |
Sun, 16 Oct 2005
Question if you
received my post from Oct 13.
Ed,
I sent a report Friday ... with a different
email than normal. Since it wasn't published I wonder
if you received it. I can resend if you did not get it. |
I do not publish every day, so you might
not see a reply for a while. |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Fat Tails
Regarding
"The Economist"
Cover
I see fat tails.
Sincerely, |
Yes, Trend Followers always see fat
tails.

A Fat Tail
refers to a market that runs on and on
and
therefore fattens the tail
on
the P&L distribution curve.

The Nikkei
Magazine
Covers
may help
celebrate
the discount.
Clip:
http://www.painteddesertgeckos.com/
fattieavail.html |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Wants Video of
Process
Dear Ed,
I understand the importance of privacy and that you do not reveal personal
information. I just want to emphasize that I'm not requesting the identity
of contributors and that it is MY OWN personal information that I'm
requesting from you, so that I can choose to share it with the local tribe
here, as they are all eager to see more about the process.
I'm requesting,
if possible, only the part where I am on the hot seat with you as the
receiver during the May '04 Workshop, and nothing more. If you think that is
still against the ground rules, I respect your judgment, and that's OK.
Thanks. |
As I recall, the tape shows several
people interacting during your process. Releasing it would compromise
the privacy of several people. |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Wants to
Recommend Book
Dear Ed,
I really want to recommend a book. It is clear and inspiring. The
philosophy behind it also fits perfectly with trading tribe concepts. Can
you please include on your list of "Favorite Books" on the webpage. |
You might consider telling your feelings
about the book and the impact it is having on your trading. |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
No Studies
Hi Chief,
I am the accessing the Studies section of the website.
When do you expect to make the studies available. |
For studies, see TSP. |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Trade Station
Redeems Trades
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the help the other day. I very much appreciate your time,
input and expertise.
I subsequently found out that:
1. Trade Station does automate one's system. The system remains on my
hard drive, triggers are created by the software such that the trade is
entered into the brokerage and (with QQQQ) should execute within a
fraction of a second.
2. With bad prints, they will back me out of the trade.
|
During the time between execution and
filing your claim, the price might move quite a bit.
I wonder what the exact rules are for
redeeming a trade.
You might consider getting the actual
guarantee in writing. |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Workshop as a
Gift
Ed:
I was racking my
brain trying to come up with a birthday gift for [friend] this year, I
thought of you as a possible resource. I
wanted to try to find something - as a gift - that would be more meaningful
than the typical "stuff". I was thinking there might be an "experience" type
of gift that you might know of - maybe a seminar or retreat or ?? If it was
something we could do as a couple, great - but that's not necessary. Ed, any
suggestions you have would be sincerely appreciated.
|
You might consider taking a Workshop
together. Be sure he is willing to go. |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Anxiety as an Ally
Ed,
The commitment and willingness demonstrated by everyone at our tribe meeting
last night was inspiring. We had two pollinators and a total of eleven
members present, all of whom took the hot seat. Receiving for ten others is
rewarding. Since we all share many of the issues, it is clarifying. At the
end of this very long meeting, we were all pretty much "zeroed out."
Not only did everyone take the hot seat, but each person also served as
process manager. It was instructive and interesting to see the variations in
techniques, and the responses of the sitters to these different tacks on
managing the processes. There were several times when a relatively
inexperienced manager was able to assist a sitter to find forms that were
not immediately apparent in the beginning of the process. Through patient
and thorough probing for feelings and perceptive observation of subtle body
movements, issues were successfully addressed. Sometimes very subtle
movements, when developed, resulted in uncovering large pools of feeling,
leading to more forms. Experiencing all of the forms to the zero point
results in a loss of the significance of the forms, and of the emotions or
feelings associated with them. This will then allow the sitter, and often
the receivers as well, to live without the need to produce dramas required
to experience those feelings. The feelings may still come, but because one
is willing to feel them, they no longer have emotional charge and do not
rule one's behavior. This is liberating, a real path to personal freedom.
My own hot seat experience was enjoyable. Since it had been a while since I
had taken the hot seat, I felt that I was likely to come up with some
deep-seated stuff. I had been having anxiety about one of my snapshots, and
wanted to clarify my intentions. Beginning with some twisting, squeezing,
and writhing forms, yoga-like postures, perhaps some birth-related forms,
and some screaming developed. My PM asked me to try to put all of my "one
hundred forms" together, and I came up with a composite form that felt right
to me. He directed me to stay with the feeling for as long as possible,
which I did. I committed to experiencing the feeling and to taking it to the
end, wherever and whenever that was. At the zero point, I realized that I
would continue to have anxiety about my huge snapshot project, but that it
is OK. I said that I would notice my anxiety whenever it arose, and then let
it go. It seems to me that the feelings are less likely to produce
deleterious dramas.
I thank my tribe for their vigorous, unconditional support. They help me to
be a better person. |
Thank you for sharing your process.

Yoga-a-a-a- a-a-ahhh
Some TTP forms look like yoga forms.
By
following them wherever they go,
and
being willing to experience them,
we
get to the zero point.
Clip:
http://www.exit50.com/images/
April2005/yoga.jpg
|
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Workshop
Chief,
I am excited to report that the [City] TT potential membership has
increased 150% since last Sunday (I have already been contacted by 2
people).
Do new tribes traditionally learn how to conduct meetings
by attending the TTP Workshop or are most branches by members of the
IV Tribe?
I have read the FAQ and the book and all of the
information on the site, and we will have our first meeting next
week to become acquainted. My intention is to create a successful
tribe and I will appreciate any information.
Thanks for all of your giving, and receiving. |
Most active, robust Tribes seem to have one or
more members with workshop experience. Many members of the Incline
Village Trading Tribe also run other Tribes.
Here is some more important "any
information" for you:

Tip for Washing Your Car
Be sure to wear
appropriate clothing
and to use
good quality soap.
Clip:
http://www.dataste.com/blog/wordpress/wp-images/smilies/tastybabemustang.jpg
|
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Hot Seat Report - Pressure
My hot-seat issue for our TTP meeting is an intense feeling of pressure that
I do not like. It happens to be financial pressure and pressure I create
through trading. It can expand outside these two areas of my life. I seem to
experience pressure a lot. I don’t like it and part of me is unwilling to
enjoy it or take responsibility for my part in creating it. Yet, results
equal intentions. My feeling intense pressure is the result of my intending
it on some unconscious level. Some part of me likes to feel all this
pressure. This fact is really hard to digest since another part detests it
just so much. But I do accept it.
I share my story as I enter the session. Tribesmen quickly help me into my
forms. I manifest forms that range from squeezing my head hard with both
hands on each temple, screaming “No!” as loud as I can, shaking my head and
body violently back and forth on the floor and squeezing myself into a ball
on the floor as tightly as I can while I contort my face. This is the
manifestation of my pressure. I experience all these feelings. The ones I do
not like, my tribesmen help me find the feeling of “not liking it” in my
body and I experience that. Once I do that, I can easily feel the original
feeling I did not initially wish to feel.
After moving through these forms, my issue seems to boil itself down to a
part of me that likes creating pressure and another part that does not like
feeling all this pressure. Part of my form that presents is a shaking back
and forth of my head while I say I like all this pressure – a no I don’t
like it, yes I do all at the same time. Both are true, real feelings and
happening at the same time.
As I continue to do this form and intensify it, at some point both forms tip
and merge. This process takes a while and requires a lot of effort. I gain
an aha that pops into my consciousness. I can have both at the same time,
not just one or the other. I can like and not like the pressure at the same
time and this is ok. This releases a tremendous amount of pressure and I
feel at peace with my issue. Both have positive intentions.
A residual form appears at the center of my forehead. I intensify a
furrowing of my brow. When this passes, I reach my zero point – a peaceful
and relaxed place.
Tribe members question me about my original entry point,
but I cannot find a feeling or instance of pressure. I feel really good
about like and not liking the pressure all at the same time instead of just
one or the other. In fact, I realize that my one or the other choice is a
major part of this knot. Indeed, when I allow myself to have both, the knot
relaxes and becomes loose. When I stick with one or the other, it tightens.
This is weird and cool at the same time.
I feel there still may be more under the surface with my pressure knot even
after this major release. I commit to keep my eye on the prize and take the
hot seat for however long it takes to dissolve it. |
Thank you for sharing your process.

Our Experiences with Pressure
start early in life.
Clip:
http://www.mothernature.com/images/
library/books/femaleGuide/
CHILDBIRTH1AwMVCurve.GIF |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
Getting to Zero
Dear Ed,
English is not my native language, so please, try to understand the meaning
before the form.
During > 2 years I have been following your homepage. Man,
how I was frustrated. All those riddles. Until I realized that we all have
to figure it out by ourselves.
My wife (who is a mixture of native American,
black and white) like all of us, hehe, says that you are a medicine man.
Well, probably you are.
One day I will participate in one of your meetings.
At the moment I don’t have the money for it. The small stake I have is, in
speculation. But sooner or later, (I intend) we’ll meet.
Have
you ever contemplated about the meaning of zero? As I see it, there are two
different zeros. The real zero that is the sum of zero elements. And the
strange zero that is the sum of > 1 elements. Some people say that in
vacuum, mater and anti-mater appears all the time.
Trend follower wanna be and gonna be! |
OK.

At
The Bottom
all
the tangents have
slope = 0.
Clip:
http://www2.sccfl.edu/lvosbury/
CalculusIII_Folder/DistPtToSurface.html |
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
The DIM Process - Do It Myself
Sir, each and every word you publish in the TT site does carry a lot of
meaning / depth, fun at times too, and conveys how intensely serious you are.
I really enjoy following the site. Thanks a million for your work to help
people around the globe.
I am unable to get members to attemd my Tribe. So I have made FAQ as my Tribe and Sir, Ed as the Tribe Leader.
So
whatever comes to my mind I am typing it out and sending to FAQ and would so
hereafter, on a regular basis. Sir, hope my mails are not treated as trash
and guide me through developing mentally.
From within I would like to become a trader, seriously, but could not
develop insights. Just started going through the TSP. Is it a pre-requisite
to be a technocrat or from a math background to go through, study,
understand, follow and duplicate the TSP? Though I am having some math
background, I need to revise many of the fundamentals.
How does, naturally, a mind evolves itself, like yours, for trend following
- the answer for this should give an opportunity to get the insight of the
mind of a genius like, Ed Seykota.
How does the trend following psychology could be developed by inculcating
and practicing, if one doesn't have the natural ability, apart from the
Tribe? |
Writing to FAQ is not the same as
attending a Tribe meeting.
|
Sat, 15 Oct 2005
How to Teach
Trend Following
Dear Sir,
Recently I was blessed with a male baby who is now 9-month old.
Sir, I would like him to be a trader with trend following approach. Would
you please guide me through the process of his upbringing
(mentally / psychologically), so that he could become a staunch trend
follower. |
You might consider setting an example of
Trend Following by supporting him following his own heart.
You might also consider taking your
feelings of wanting to manage your son's career to your Tribe as an entry
point.

Demanding That Your Son
Learn to Go with the Flow
is
a pretty good way
to
transfer your k-nots
to
him
Clip:
http://www.savannahnow.com/exchange/
stories/020903/EXCetiquette.shtml |
Fri, 14 Oct 2005
Embarrassment
Impedes Startup
Hi Ed,
Our trading tribe meets once per month and has been in existence for some
8-9 months now. I’ve been a member since August.
We seem to be progressing slowly in terms of the methods as described in the
Trading Tribe book, but progressing none-the-less.
We previously would spend the meetings TALKING about our various issues in
regards to trading, whereas now we seem to be more open to try and
experience these issues (i.e. the feelings/forms associated with these
issues)
I know for myself that the difficulty lies in experiencing my feelings in
front of other people, so I suppose that I have judgments regarding being
in a vulnerable state around others.
It’s as though I don’t want to feel embarrassed and/or ridiculed by others
if I assume some kind of ‘strange’ posture/position whilst experiencing my
forms.
In other words . . . “what would the neighbors think!”
We’ve discussed (note that word) this amongst ourselves and we all feel
similarly about this to a more or lesser degree.
We tend to ‘discuss’ a lot, hence the slow progress.
We all seem to be content to ‘stay in our heads’ at this moment rather than
. . . . . . (cliché time) . . . ‘venturing out into the unknown’.
I wonder if this is the natural evolution of the typical tribe or is it
simply the natural evolution of OUR tribe.
In closing, would you consider doing a workshop here in [City] if the
numbers were sufficient? It would be of great benefit to have the guidance
of an experienced TT practitioner, but I guess if the Mountain won’t come to
Mohammed then . . . you know the rest.
Thanks Ed & double thanks for a really great Website.
Cheers & best regards |
You might consider sending one or two of
your members to a Workshop to get the hang of it.
Once your Tribe is up and running, you
can take your feelings of embarrassment to the Tribe as an entry point.

Embarrassment
has
a positive intention
Clip:
http://www.digitalhit.com/posters/p/421996
|
Fri, 14 Oct 2005
I don't want to go.
Hi Ed,
Our recent bi-weekly tribe meeting includes several guests pollinating from
other tribes. The dynamic of the tribe changes the last few meeting as some
old members depart and fresh faces turn up. In my check-in I state I am
uncomfortable with the new faces and the tribe member who already know me
are aware that comfort is one of my issues.
An indication earlier in the evening shows that all 11 members intend to get
on the hotseat. I sit just over half way around the circle from the starting
point and wait there stewing through 6 hot seats before my turn arises.
The
night seems to drag and I get very annoyed sitting through the processes.
Finally my turn arises and my well thought out excuse of why I do not intend
to take the hotseat this evening flows freely.
I think I am in the clear and
feel a general sense of relief. As we start to move on to the next hotseat
participant Ed reminds me that as a member of the IVTT I make a commitment
to take the hotseat at every meeting. In effect Ed tells me to commit to the
work on the hotseat this evening or alternatively consider resigning from the tribe.
I have many issues including defiance, skepticism of the whole form process
and a general resistance to letting go on the hotseat.
Now I am in a pickle.
It is either s--- or get off the pot. Despite the urge to walk out I stay
and take the hotseat. The process manager does a great job of teasing out
some feelings. I decide to be brutally honest and say I think the process is
a crock of s--- and the other member of the group are a bunch of w------ for
the forms they readily display.
It feels great to do this and the tribe
repeatedly encourage me to do more and get into my feelings. I put several
forms together that evolve out of anger and sadness. It feels great to do
this and I am extremely pleased that Ed holds my feet to the fire and makes
me honor my hotseat commitment despite my initial defiance.
In my check-out I mention a similar s--- or get off the pot ultimatum I
receive nearly 10 years ago from my then girlfriend and now wife. The choice
to stick with that commitment is the best decision of my life. I thank the
tribe for their support and continue to receive for the remaining 4 other
members until our marathon session finally concludes at 2:30 AM. |
Thank you for sharing your process.
|
Fri, 14 Oct 2005
TTP and Me
Ed,
I just wanted to let you know how well things are going, since my
introduction TTP. I can't begin to list all of the changes that are
taking place. I feel as though I am in a counter clockwise circle of
energy that extends upward, above, in front, down and around me.
I'm
daring to dream, believing that my visions will come true, acting in
accordance with the vision, and find the environment changing. My
actions are becoming more intuitively directed as I learn to trust life
and act in accordance with my vision.
Willing to acknowledge, address,
and experience the intensity of all of my feelings, I'm finding my
perception of reality to be changing drastically. Life and I appear to
be working together toward the creation of my vision.
I'm watching life
work with and propel me toward my vision. Literally, from out of nowhere
I recently received a call, and was given (as a gift) a Hotel and Ski
Package in North Shore Tahoe. Just like that, the hotel accommodations
have been covered for the workshop.
Look at the abundance, I have ski
tickets to give away. I can not wait to see how this vision continues
to come together. It is truly an amazing process. There are so many
things I would like to have, create, and share, but there is nowhere I'd
rather be than right here, right now.
Thank you for everything you've done, you do, and you are. |
Thank you for sharing your process. |
Thu, 13 Oct 2005
Copy of Tape
Dear Ed,
How are you? It's been a year and a half since the Workshop (May '04), and
I'm now looking for plane tickets to attend your next one in January. I
truly appreciate the experience when you receive me on the hot seat at that
time, and validate my feelings to cry as much as I want. For you it may be
just another routine session, but for me it's a tremendous lesson I never
forget, and I thank you wholeheartedly.
We have a tribe meeting last night and we are discussing the possibility of
taping our own session (if all agree), and to perhaps send it to you for
some feedbacks. Moreover, the tribe think they can benefit greatly if they
can see how you receive me on the hot seat. So, may I ask if you still have
it on tape or some digital version? If so, is it OK to send us a copy so
that I can share the experience with them? If the tape is no longer
available or you don't feel that's a good idea, I respect your decision and
accept it as is. In any case, I thank you for all your teachings and sharing
all these years. Thank you very much. |
I do not
publish the identity of contributors
or
reveal personal information. Several people appear on the tape. See ground rules.
If you wish to share your experience of
working with me, bring your Tribe to the next Workshop.
|
Thu, 13 Oct 2005
How to Change
Someone Else
At our last Tribe
Meeting, I take the hot seat wit an issue about my son's misbehavior.
He is clearly acting out, even to the extent of attracting attention from
the local police.
My process manager
leads me through several forms, including intense grimacing and shaking that
somehow resolve to a posture in which I am facing upward on the floor,
supporting myself on my hands and feet with my torso arching upward, like a
bridge.
I make some
connections that somehow, my son's behavior is part of a bridge or
transition from living at home to finding his own way in the world.
I seem to be at
some kind of zero point. The Tribe then peppers me with comments,
statements and questions as a test to see if they can still plug me in to my
upset. I answer all of them with consistent resolve to stay the course
and contain my own behavior, while supporting my son to find his own way.
Although my son
has no direct knowledge about the tribe meeting and no discussion about it
with me, I notice his behavior is now remarkably different.
I see that the way
to fix someone else is to take my concerns about him to Tribe. |
Thank you for sharing your process. Nice
insight. You might consider forming a Tribe some day.

Fathers and Sons
trade turns teaching each other.
Clip:
http://www.richardcorbett.co.uk/cd/
portrait%20home%20page%20thumbs/
father%20and%20son%20full.jpg |
Thu, 13 Oct 2005
Intuition, Ego
and a Magazine Cover
Dear Ed,
I e-mailed you a great chart for Japan a couple of weeks ago.
But alas, here is the front cover of this week's Economist:
My strong intuition (looking at the sun creeping over the mountain) is that
the message is a "Permission to buy" rather than "Permission to sell", as
per your theories on magazine covers.
Alternatively, this could be the mischievous voice of my ego, since I'm long
in Japanese stock.
Is the magazine cover theory up for debate?
best wishes,

|
I see something emerging at the top -
along with it's mirror image. The cover seems calm and in balance. I
do not perceive much ebullience. |
Thu, 13 Oct 2005
Sexy
Ed,
Somebody commented some time ago that the visual images in your replies to
FAQ were becoming more sexualized.
May I say that I rather like them!!
Perhaps our
"snapshots" coincide in this regard? |
People also seem to stop and look at
photos of children, dogs and nice homes.

If You Find This Photo Offensive
You
can look away,
and
/ or
take you feelings about it
to
your Tribe.
Clip:
http://www.mrkphoto.com/images/
baby_dog.jpg
|
Thu, 13 Oct 2005
Pyramiding
Dear Mr. Seykota,
I trade the Forex markets using my own long term trend following system,
trying to get a yearly return of 35% and have been successful in my venture
so far.
I first read about
you in Market Wizards and ever since I've kept a close eye to your work and
have found that our trading philosophies are very similar. I'm guessing your
a busy man so ill keep it short.
I've been trying to figure out whether to put on the full position from the
beginning or whether to pyramid my positions. |
You can find answers to your question by
back testing. See TSP, above, for examples.

Pyramids May Look Different
From the top.
Clip:
http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~bentlema/
mexico/teotihuacan/marina-sun-pyramid.jpg |
Wed, 12 Oct 2005
Performance
Do you post the performance of ... trading systems. |
FAQ does not post trader performance.
See Ground Rules, above. |
Wed, 12 Oct 2005
Stock investors might want to load up on this stuff.

Clip: http://www.udap.com/safety.htm
|
You might consider ways to convert bear
markets from adversaries to allies. |
Wed, 12 Oct 2005
Hot Seat
Experience
Hi Ed,
In the afternoon session when I explain my snapshot, I feel very nervous. My
voice is shaky, my chest is tight, and I don’t think clearly. I feel
embarrassment. I decide to take these feelings to the hot seat.
On the hot seat, I feel tightness in my chest and the tribe encourages me to
go with that feeling. I grab my chest with my right arm and my other arm
grabs my leg as I extend them with legs crossed. I feel rage bubbling up my
throat, so I yell several obscenities at the top of my lungs. I go through
several forms and then the process manager encourages me to integrate them.
I lean over and I loop one of my arms under one of my legs and over the
other one. With my other arm, I grab the toes of my other leg and extend my
leg. At the end of the process, I lean back in my chair and I feel very
tired.
I think it is interesting that my integration of forms is a knot. It takes
me a few days to realize this. The feelings I experience on the hot seat are
frustration and anger. As a kid, my older brother likes to humiliate me in
social situations. When this happens, I feel nervousness, shame and
embarrassment. If I get angry, he takes that as an invitation to fight. If
we get into a fight, he makes sure to inflict pain. Even if I “win” the
fight, when I turn my back he is going to get the last lick. To avoid
fights, I don’t show my anger. I pretend to ignore him.
Since the hot seat session, I re-play many experiences in my life where I
have anger in a knot. I have many AHA’s. Every day there is something new.
It feels good to reclaim anger as an ally. I don’t have to run dramas in my
relationships to express my anger. I thank all of the members of the [City] Trading Tribe for your support. |
Thank you for sharing your process.

When Anger is an Ally
you
experience its positive intention
and
it disappears
when anger is an adversary
you
might avoid it, bottle it up
and
eventually express it violently.
Clip:
http://www.lssofny.org/Counseling/
Anger_Management_for_Men/anger.jpg |
Tue, 11 Oct 2005
Owning the
System
Dear Ed,
Reading FAQ has provided tremendous benefits in my life, particularly in
seeking the answer to “right livelihood”, quitting smoking, being much more
open with my feelings and finally being able to discuss sensitive issues
with my wife after 25 years of stifling what was really on my mind. I am
ever grateful to you for your service to all of us who wonder if this all
there is to life. She thanks you also and is fully supportive of all that I
am trying to do. She even encouraged me to attend a workshop.
My stock selection system generates buy/sell, short/cover orders on up to 15
stocks (using a 12% trailing stop) from an S&P 1500 stock database. This is
a campaign reversal plan (always in the market, either long or short).
Back-testing yields returns or more than 3 to 1 drawdown multiple, with a
31% maximum drawdown between 1995 and today. I do not have an operator in my
system to generate go-long/go-short campaign turns. I obtain them from an
outside vendor. I do have access to this vendor’s past private and public
buy or sell signals for back-testing. My back-testing shows an 80+%
profitable campaign history and approximately 55% profitable trades, with an
average of around 3 signals per year.
Since I do not “own” the signal generator, do I really have a system? |
The way you do things is your system.
If you do not understand your system
and/or if you system is inconsistent, it is still your system.
If you can get back data on your
campaign signal vendor, you can back test your entire system.

Systems Have Many Variables
some are endogenous
and
subject to your influence
some are exogenous
and
serve as inputs
or
drivers.
Clip:
http://web.media.mit.edu/~stefanm/
yano/pictures/gears.jpg |
Tue, 11 Oct 2005
How to Change
Someone Else
Dear Ed,
My wife and her mother are both very loving persons, and there is no doubt
that they both love each other very much. My wife would make plans for her
mother when she comes visit, like taking her for a vacation and they have a
good time.
However, my wife sometimes gets very upset when she talks on the phone with
her mother. When I ask what is wrong, she complains that her mother always
manages to get on her nerves by asking precisely the wrong question, making
the wrong suggestion, or just ignoring her request. For example, being in
another country and not familiar with the US culture, her mother may make
suggestions to my wife where one side feels absolutely reasonable and the
other feels ridiculous. Or my wife repeatedly pleads to her mother to go see
a doctor because she has foot problems, or asks her not to do any house work
so that she can have some rest, but her mother would not listen. She
wouldn't go to see the doctor and insist on cleaning the bathroom and
kitchen for us, despite my wife would rather see her taking more rest than
doing more work.
From old FAQ I remember you say that to the extent that one is willing to
allow her parents to be the way they are, to the extent she is unwilling to
feel her own feelings about living her life, then she risks enrolling
herself as a subject. I see the manipulation at work: my wife wants her
mother to be whom my wife wants her to be. So I try to hint at my wife that
if she can just allow her mother to be the person she is, then there is no
need to get upset.
Yesterday they were on the phone again, and my wife who is usually very
gentle, gets very irritated and even stomp on the floor several times. She
is obviously annoyed, and when they finish talking, I hear my wife weeping -
the kind of weeping not because of sadness, but that she is so upset yet
trying to holding back her emotions.
So I try to validate her feelings. I sit down with her and ask about how
she's feeling. She gets into it, and there are more tears, with some kicking
in the air. I smile at her and tell her it's good to be experiencing these
feelings, and it's OK to let it all out. She does a little more and then she
calms down.
I know deep inside she thinks that she shouldn't get mad at her mother,
because she knows her mother has a good intention. Yet her mother seems to
know exactly which button to push to get her irritated, and they've been
running this drama for a while. I try to let her go deeper into this knot of
hers, but she says she has calmed down now and need to prepare dinner. Not
wanting to force her into what she resists, I let her go.
The interesting observation I have on them is how she avoids her feeling by
calming herself down, and remind herself shouldn't get upset. Also, she and
her mother actually share a lot of similar traits. My mother-in-law refuses
to go to see the foot doctor just like my wife refuses to see the
chiropractor on her neck problem. They both care about their closed ones,
and so they'd do what they themselves think is good for others, despite
being told otherwise.
I guess my question is how can I do more to help validate my wife's
feelings? As a receiver, it is obvious to me that she is still holding
judgments, and she is avoiding to go deeper. If it were a TTP setting, I'd
ask her to stomp the floor more. But I also know that telling her to do so
tends to bring out her conscious resistance, her judgment about making noise
and appearing foolish, and insisting her to do so is not TTP. I try asking
about how she feels, she'd go over "why" she is upset and maybe feeling a
little of that too, but once she becomes aware she's upset she'd hold back
the feeling and do something else.
Is there anything I can do to encourage her to go deeper? Many thanks.
|
You might consider taking your feelings
of wanting to fix your wife to your Tribe.

Before You Operate On Someone Else
be
sure to get consent
Clip:
http://www.doerings.net/
photos/no-date/thorax-open.jpg |
Tue, 11 Oct 2005
Resolving
Issues / Wants to attend IV-TT
Mon, 10 Oct 2005
Ed,
I need to attend/audit a TTP meeting in IV. You may know that I run the
[City] Tribe where [another individual] acts as the process manager. [We]
are now up to 5 members and I am reviewing three more applicants.
It is just about three months since the breath workshop and in that time
span, I have resolved the two issues I brought to the Breath workshop.
Currently, I have some live issues - 1. regarding my business (money
management), 2. trading (taking signals but need to trade proper sizes - I
take too small sizes compared to models. and 3. personal life - recent break
up.
Regarding business - a large company has approached me to join them
and to combine my firm with their hedge fund division. |
Yes, you may attend one time as a
pollinator, more if you agree to the terms on the Directory page.
|
Tue, 11 Oct 2005
Wants to Join
Dear Ed,
Any way I can be a part of one of your groups ? |
Yes, See Directory, above. |
Tue, 11 Oct 2005
Continuous Contracts
Dear Ed , If we run the TSP using the underlying ( for example spot Gold ,
spot S and P Index ) price series, would the result be significantly
different?
My point is that it is easier to get price history for the
underlying rather than for continuous contracts. Do you think the trade off
could be significant? |
If you run your test on spot gold, then
you have to allow for the cost of carrying a cash position. The Panama
continuous chart accounts for this by decreasing in value relative to the
cash chart.
You might take your feelings of wanting
to do the easy thing to your Tribe as an entry point.

Easy
is
Not Always the only component
in
your bliss function.
Clip:
http://www.irtc.org/ftp/pub/
stills/2005-02-28/easy.jpg |
Tue, 11 Oct 2005
New Tribe
Chief,
I am excited to report that the [City] TT potential membership has
increased 150% since last Sunday (I have already been contacted by 2
people). Do new tribes traditionally learn how to conduct meetings by
attending the TTP Workshop or are most branches by members of the IV Tribe?
I have read the FAQ and the book and all of the information on the site, and
we will have our first meeting next week to become acquainted. My intention
is to create a successful tribe and I will appreciate any information.
Thanks for all of your giving, and receiving. |
Methods of learning include reading the
book, attending a workshop, visiting other Tribes, accepting Pollinators and
taking your feeling of wanting to learn to your Tribe as an entry point.

Learning by Teaching
Clip:
http://www.hrs.ualberta.ca/images/
Learning.jpg
|
|