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Ed Seykota's

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March 13-23, 2004




(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Tue, 23 Mar 2004


Dear Sir,

I have just sent out a check to Trading Tribe for the Workshop, and I apologize for the delay. May I please have a receipt? Many thanks.



Checks in envelopes with postmarks before April 1 qualify for the current rate.

Tue, 23 Mar 2004


Cross Pollination

Hi Ed,

I am in the Tahoe area on April 1st and wonder if I can join you at the IV TTP meeting as a visitor. I am a regular member of the London tribe, but will miss our next meeting, and it would be really good to see how TTP is conducted at its birthplace.






Incline Village


is Up Around The North Shore

of Lake Tahoe


Clip: http://www.nestbox.com/


Tue, 23 Mar 2004

Faulkner Essay

I very much enjoy the essay by Charles Faulkner. It clarifies some thoughts that I have towards other therapies and approaches to emotion. He says it a lot better than I can.

One alternate approach he mentions is to use drugs and alcohol to alter feelings and emotions so that they become tolerable or non-existent. He says that this approach is not nearly as acknowledged as others but my guess is that it definitely may be one of the most prevalent. It certainly is for me. I have been using a low dose of Prozac for 6 years to blot out feelings of anxiety, mostly to allow me to be more comfortable in social situations.

I’m sure Prozac is a legitimate drug and serves its purpose and becomes a blessing for those who are able to climb out of states of deep depression. I think that it is used or rather abused in almost epidemic proportions for many other reasons other than its original intention.


I’m sure the drug companies who manufacture Prozac and its generic alternative are in their glee. A family member once worked for the Blue Cross in North Carolina and told me that 30% of its prescription claims were for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, SSRI’s for short, or Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and their cousins.


That’s either a lot of depressed people or more likely a lot of people who use it as a wonder drug. It seems to be the answer for many people, myself included, that is used to deal with a whole host of emotional problems that may include eating disorders, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, or any condition that it easily alleviates. It’s just another way for people to avoid the real issue of not being willing to experience feelings, whatever they may be.

This is the realization I came too when I first discovered your site early last year. I faced the decision of continuing the course of treatment and looking forward to higher and higher doses once its effectiveness begins to wear off, or, start reducing the dose and begin the real work of experiencing the feelings I’ve been trying to cover up.


I’m happy to say that I chose the later and after nine months I’m now at the lowest dose there is with the hope of soon being drug free.


It is not easy. Many of the irrational thoughts that I recall having prior to the course of treatment have now returned along with the associated feelings. I now realize the thoughts for what they are - just thoughts, and concentrate on feelings as they arise. This practice is the sole reason for my success so far. For so long I’ve been living in la-la land, dismissing issues that needed attention, but not bothering since I had no feelings there to guide me, or rather those feelings were muted, altered.

I still judge many of the feelings that arise from time to time as bad and in a social sense, debilitating. I am not able to fully experience these on my own. I am committed however to one day completely clearing my emotional control panel and living life the way it was intended.

Given my situation and understanding that the theme of the May workshop is ‘Defining Your System”, would it be inappropriate to hope that these issues could be faced with your help and that of the other attendees.


I certainly do not wish to take away from the Workshop experience in any way, or use it to ‘effect deliverance’ from a nagging problem. I really feel that my anxiety issues are my biggest hurdle, and since all feelings holotropically track towards key blockages, it presents good entry feelings for TTP. I feel stuck, in my trading, and in life. As you have noted many times, I engage the DIM process. To date, other than my one and only AHA, I succeed in making things more difficult for myself by touching on repressed feelings but never fully experiencing them.

I would like to attend but am hesitant. I do not want to take away valuable time from others with my issues that seem so ridiculously unnecessary
. Being social anxious, the workshop scares me.

I would like to thank Charles Faulkner for his essay.

Thank You.

You might identify, locate and take your feelings of "not wanting to take from others" into TTP.


Taking from others is a key issue for many traders - successful traders typically take quite a lot from others.


Participants who get into their feelings, take up the most time and attention, and make the most progress also seem to contribute the most to others by being examples of courage and commitment.


See the link to the Faulkner essay on the TTP page.




Taking and Receiving


are sometimes the gift



Clip: http://www.simplifiedsigns.org/T.htm


Tue, 23 Mar 2004


Good Natured Debate

Hi Ed -

I am having a good natured debate with [Name] about Warren Buffet. Apparently they feel that Buffet is a hypocrite because he cut back his exposure in the OTC derivatives market because of accounting opaqueness and counterparty risk while at the same time he issues negative coupon bonds with warrants and hedges his cash positions against the falling dollar.

Maybe I am missing something but I fail to see the logic here. Do you ?


You might get in touch with your feelings about:



Your debate partner

Wanting to enroll me in your debate / drama.


You might then take these feelings, as an entry point, into TTP. 






Investing in Margarita Ville







Tue, 23 Mar 2004


Clients for Asset Management

Hi Ed -

Do you still take on clients for asset management? If so, please advise on how to proceed.

Keep up the great work,

If you wish to place funds with me, you might send me a description of what you expect to gain and how much volatility you feel you can handle - and if you can go with trends without having to understand why the markets move.

Tue, 23 Mar 2004

Confirmation Process

Hi Ed

Great site.

Ed Says: "You can take "wanting confirmation from others," into the process as a starting point".


This is something I want to explore, so I am to find the physical manifestation of this, is this correct? I am or our group is not to explore the thoughts associated with this?

If I then had no feelings associated with this, then we explore what it feels like to feel "no feelings" and so on. Keep peeling away. Don't ask why in the process, correct?

You might notice you are asking me for confirmation. 




Take This Here Feeling


of Wanting Confirmation

into TTP, my Son.








Mon, 22 Mar 2004


Population Proportional News

Hi Ed !

Fascinating how the entire world media cites two little hate-filled tribes in a few miles of desert doing what they've been doing for a thousand years as the 'reason' for billions wiped off the equities today.

I'd like a news station which had population proportional news. There would be 2 minutes about the middle east, and many hours about the peaceful villages in China, India, Europe, the Americas.

News seem drama-proportional. 


Conventional media rarely mention much about being in tune with life, riding along with the flow.




Flash !  This Just In !


Some happy people

spend a pleasant day

hiking in Big Sur


Clip: http://www.jmknoble.net/photos/




Sun, 21 Mar 2004


Up 90% in one day.

Hi Ed !

Those charts you post are very interesting ! One of them was up 90% the day after your posting, settling up 53% ! Not bad for a day's work.

The "work" may appear in staying clear enough to ride the trends.

Sun, 21 Mar 2004


TTP Supports Yoga


Hi Ed !

Feelings of gratefulness well up when I recall the tribe meeting last week. There is nowhere else and no-one else in the world who takes that much time and care to allow me to experience these emotions, as you and the tribe brothers. It's ironic that in every other social, family situation, participants work very hard to avoid these very experiences.

My experience this meeting is that knots appear, I experience them, and they disappear quickly. Then another surfaces. And another. And another. The next day my thorax is sore. The next morning I can now do a Hatha Yoga position which I had not been able to do for several years. I see the process is never-ending, that I have more to work on, and appreciate deeply the tribe.





To Achieve This Position


Experience what's standing between

you and it.



Clip: http://www.shoshoni.org/


Sun, 21 Mar 2004

Fred-ian Dreams?

Hi Ed,

i am wondering if Fred can express itself in dreams.

believe me i can be a skeptic when it comes to things like this but the following is a true story.

about a month ago i went to sleep thinking that [Stock] was going to make a new high and then take a tumble.

that night i had a dream that i was going to miss a train and that i was twenty minutes late.

i woke up in a panic and looked at the clock since i had had a similar type of dream in the past.

the clock said 4:21 am and i fell back asleep reminding myself to check [Stock] at that time when i woke up.

when i checked at 6:00 am i was stunned to see [Stock] had hit a new high at 4:26 am and i had missed the subsequent short signal by approximately twenty minutes.

my system calls for me to stay on the sidelines in these types of situations (i only allow myself to take new positions between certain hours) - but the urge to go short was incredible in light of the connection with the dream.

i stuck to my system, did not go short, and was relieved to watch the market drop and then make such a sharp reversal that it would have produced a loss had i been in the market.

in other words - my system worked despite Fred / subconcious / whatever being completely in tune with the market (assuming the connection between the dream and the market was not a coincidence).

the only sense i can make of this is that a part of me enjoys analyzing and trying to predict the market, and it is not getting validation in practice because i trade a purely mechanical system.

in other words, can / does Fred manifest itself in dreams to get the validation it may not be getting?

even more interesting to me - it has taken me almost a month to write this email despite being energized and motivated to write you the same day it happened.

any input would be greatly appreciated.

You seem to want to analyze Fred, make sense of things, enlist Fred as a market analyst.


Likely, Fred is delivering feelings to you about missing things, resisting authority ... you might take these feelings as entry points, into TTP.





Clip: www.wittyworld.com/ humorousill.html


Sun, 21 Mar 2004

Intentions and Results

Ed Says:


Under Fred helps us get what we want whether we like it or not.  The feelings
we are unwilling to experience are our real trading system.

When you receive Fred, and experience your feelings, you may get an AHA, and know what you want to do and how to do it.

TTP intends to assist Fred and CM to communicate about feelings. Out of this alchemy, you might receive an AHA, or enhance the intuition you report.

Defining your system consciously, committing to stick to it, and accepting the feelings that come up allows you to transcend your own machine-like subconscious behavior.


I found these comments by searching FAQ and I have a question: once Fred gets me into a situation to experience a given set of feelings, the attempt to understand "why" Fred is doing it in the first place is useless and counterproductive, i.e., I have no choice other than experiencing the underlying feelings, right?

So, what is a conscious intention good for, such as in the Hardball Process?

Thanks for your clarification.


In the Hardball Process we intend to intentionally experience the feelings standing between us and our goals. 

As we experience our feelings, they tend to dissolve, leaving relatively clear paths between us and our goals.





just remove

what's standing between the stone

and where you want it to go.


Clip: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/






Sat, 20 Mar 2004

Registering for the May 2004 Workshop

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I wish to attend your May 2004 workshop. I am looking forward to seeing you again.

Yours truly,

Checks in envelopes with Postmarks before April 1, qualify for the current rates.

Sat, 20 Mar 2004

TTP and Secrets and Strangers

Chief Ed,

I am curious about the Tribe member "sync-up" for lack of a better term. How
does one TTP-send to a bona fide stranger?  How does one TTP-receive from same?

I know that at least part of the answer, perhaps all of it, is 'intentionally'.

Yet, I am eager for a more specific, detailed insight about this social-dynamic aspect ...

Note I have never participated or observed a tribe meeting. So I am ignorant about it. I suspect that I may be representative of the majority of people that examine this site. So I am blind about this and trying to understand it better without that actual experience to help me. I just have the TTP web and study of related material such as the writings of Erickson and Bateson to go by.

Chief Ed, I get the part about your previous answer of 17 Jul 2003. I see the point about fresh, non-drama-enrolled, intentional relationship between tribe members, aiming for mutual clarity -- and mutual support -- regarding intentional achievement of personal insight IDs.

I do not really get the part about "There is no need to share secrets" from your response of Fri, 13 Jun 2003. Can you elaborate a little bit?

For this email, for clarity in communicating, let us define 'secret' as: "deep-seated, as-yet unidentified subconscious drivers of your personal behavior."

These need to be shared, no? Especially since the prime objective of TTP is help identify Fred-items clearly for the sender, who uses the TTP process to achieve this ID? So secrets using our definition here do actually need to be shared in TTP, no?

Assuming 100% committed, positive intention from all participants in the process, and all newbies, how much TTP time needs to pass for sender and receiver (s) to sync up and see good results, starting from the time they first met?

I am asking many questions, all about the same general topics of familiarity, trust, comfort, sincerity etc. as related to TTP members and effectiveness.

I realize experiencing my feelings about these items (familiarity, trust, comfort, sincerity) is probably a super TTP entry point for me.

Thanks again for your passion about personal psychology ... and generating the associated web page writings. I am learning a lot.





Fri, 13 Jun 2003

There is no need to share secrets. Sounds like you might still be talking story and drama as a way to avoid feelings. You might start out by sharing your own feeling about not wanting to share feelings with strangers.

Thu, 17 Jul 2003

Note: Friends from pre-existing relationships may not want you to change too much or too quickly, particularly if you have lively Under Fred dramas with them. An intentional community of relative strangers, focusing on TTP, seems to be free of such inhibitory conflicts.

You can receive people simply by accepting them and celebrating the way they are, and the way they are not.


Tribal Work supports CM and Fred receiving each other.


In Fred's unceasing effort to communicate feelings, even set up dramas to get our attention, we may engage situations we would prefer keeping to ourselves. 


Freudian psychotherapists and other talk-therapists typically like to hear all these details and analyze them.


Fred-ian TTP receivers simply provide encouragement for us to experience our feelings internally.


With TTP there is no need to talk story or reveal specific drama details - no need to reveal "secrets."



If everyone were to reveal

all their secrets

the striking thing would be

humanity's lack of originality.


Clip: http://www.encuentro2000.org/



Fri, 19 Mar 2004

Martha Stewart

Do you think that Martha Stewart did anything wrong with respect to the way in which she answered questions related to her ImClone stock? Would she have had as much trouble with the whole thing if she had just told them all it was none of their business? What advice would you give her if she called to ask?

Martha's drama is consistent with unwillingness to experience embarrassment. 


Her current situation seems to flow from her compounding attempts to "cover up" an embarrassing, originally non-criminal, transaction.


If Martha calls, I might encourage her to find a Tribe, or maybe to start one.



Martha Stewart


Life is a Reflection

of the things

we don't want to experience



Clip: http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/



Fri, 19 Mar 2004

Reno Questions

Ed -

The NYC groups need as much representation from our NYC Wednesday and Monday tribes as possible to elevate the group techniques.


Many here are new to your teaching and do not know it as well as those of us who participated in similar process in the Bay Area, or have had access to apprentices and friends of yours over the years in SF.

Of course, I am always keen on improving myself and my trading through TTP and appreciate the many profound lessons that you have, and I am sure, will lend to us.

I enquire about coming to your May workshop in Reno with two questions:

1. I would like to invite my father as the application of TTP is very relevant to my family’s situation and the 8 brothers and sisters in their family business.

My Dad and his brothers and sisters lost their Dad to cancer (my Grandpa) on Sept. 25, 2002. Grandpa was quite the patriarch and businessman in Buffalo, NY.

Grandpa was also a plunger, and grew quite a grub stake and reputation in Western New York over the years. He managed to take and keep many millions from the markets and turned me on to the markets in my formative years. In short, people like he and you have inspired me and are why I have been able to make my living off the markets, exclusively, since 1994.

I know it would do my Dad (oldest brother in the family tribe) good to participate in TTP. Is it possible he could come and we could room together?

2. Can we qualify for the All-in-Advance Re-Viewer Price $1,500 rate?

Thanks in advance,

Trying to "send" someone to a workshop because they "need it" does not work - and may indicate some drama on your part about "fixing" the other guy.


You might share your experience of your process with your father and see if he wishes to sign up of his own volition.


The All-In-Advance Re-Viewer price is for persons who are re-viewing the Workshop.


The price holds until April 1.

Fri, 19 Mar 2004



Ed: I am an institutional trader, interested in TTP. Is attendance at Reno workshop mandatory prior to starting a local TT? There is no tribe nearby, and I am looking for a way to improve my trading.

You may start a Tribe by indicating your intention. 


People with some personal, up-close, hands-on exposure to TTP (in a Workshop or in an ongoing Tribe) seem to get the hang of it enough to lead a tribe.

Fri, 19 Mar 2004


Request for Interview

Dear Ed:

We would love to have you on our new show. [Name] is a half-hour show that will debut in April on [Network] ... We have already interviewed [Names]. [Name] is the host ...

The interviews are very well researched and are focused on the guest and not another topic. We want to know about the guest’s career, and give the guest a chance to talk about what is on his or her mind ...

We would love to have you as a guest. If you are interested, please let me know. Thank you.


Hmmm ... this seems pretty much on schedule (see Charts, below).

Thu, 18 Mar 2004




I acknowledge elements of addiction in my approach to trading. My intention is to spend no more than 20-40 minutes a day examining charts. Yet I feel so compelled to turning the computer on in order to check "what's going on now" (currency markets) in a way that is detrimental to my intention of living a balanced life, and completing simple tasks.




Noticing a pattern is a good first step towards getting to the bottom of things.

Thu, 18 Mar 2004



I love your recent work on the website! Finally CHARTS! Yessss! Now were talking. Who knows which way they will go, but at least visitors can now view trends in progress and evaluate what we discuss as web Tribe members.


Have you done any Radio or Television spots. Maybe CNBC could have you as a guest. I wrote Dr. Wayne Dyer a brief note about your work. He promoted many of his own books to bestsellers. I wish you and he could meet.

TTP spreads by receiving and by word of mouth.  I suppose TTP is growing to the point of intersecting some conventional media and news services.

Wed, 17 Mar 2004



Dear Ed,

Seems that TTP is catching on ...

Editor's note: The following are highlights of Vice President Dick Cheney's remarks at last night's annual Gridiron dinner. Although the speech is off-the-record, they were obtained by The Daily Standard.


"Thank you, President [Al] Hunt, members of the Gridiron . . . at one point during your skits, I had a little scare. I felt a tightness in my chest. I started gasping for air and breathing irregularly. Then I realized it's called laughing  . . . "

Kindest regards,





Dick Cheney


gets into a laughing feeling

at a recent meeting

of the Capitol Tribe.


Clip: http://www.tvnewslies.org/


Wed, 17 Mar 2004


Mr. Seykota,

I'm not sure how long the emails are that you normally receive but I will try to explain my situation in the shortest amount of time. Your TT website and FAQ really made me feel like I wanted to express my current experience and "rebirth" since it seems mane other people feel so open to share their experiences on the site. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read it and any comments you reply with.

I've been fascinated with the markets since I don't know how long. For the past few years I have tried to study more about them and how they "really" work. After my father lost a ton of money (not only from the tech boom, but from his broker's recommendations to stay in stocks while his firm was shorting my dad), I had my own "aha" about they way Wall Street is honest-to-God rigged. Does anyone with normal intelligence think that all the billion-dollar casinos in Vegas and the big buildings on Wall Street are there because they are losing and the little-guy is winning?


Also realizing that I couldn't place stops in a mutual fund (let alone has a broker ever suggested a stop in any investment), I decided to pull all my money out and manage it myself.


For the last year or so I looked to all sort's of technical analysis and whatnot for the "answer" or "holy grail." But after a very short trading period of gaining 0% (not too bad for a greenhorn I think), I have stopped trading. Then I discovered the TurtleTrader website and thought, of course, that it was another scam. Well, I have yet to find out since I paid-up for the course and have yet to receive and open page 1. But after scouring the site for an entire weekend and seeing how there is no mention of a "secret formula" or some other pitch of any kind on the site, and also reading about guys like you, I decided to give it a try.

I consider myself to be extremely entrepreneurial because I hate the idea of sitting in some office for the rest of my life when I have so many dreams and ideas in my head that I want to capitalize on. Maybe that was why I was always drawn to trading. I considered it a way to work hard, work focused and for oneself, not having to answer to anyone except themselves. They are ultimately responsible. A place where one can truly take risks and, if lucky, make some serious money.

After growing up in America and working for two years after college, I decided that I was sick of the typical life there and left for Europe. After so many years sitting around and conjuring up what seemed like unattainable dreams like being an international extraordinaire, living an absolutely awesome life, experience new things, cultures, etc ... , I finally decided that if I did not do something about right then and there then I would never do it at all.

I decided that I would take the "risk" and I buy a one-way ticket and not look back until I had succeeded in my goals (in this case basically being a completely new life, friends, family, money, etc...). I thought of the famous general who came ashore with his troops and ordered them to burn their boats so that their options were to either win or die.


When I made the decision it was so incredibly ironic all the things that were happening to me just days prior to my departure. I threw away pretty much everything I owned of little or no significance. I was hit on my motorcycle and (thankfully not hurt) cashed it in. I was in a three car pile-up on the freeway (thankfully not injured once again) and cashed it in. It was like everything was telling me to get the hell out and start fresh.

Well, I've been here in a post-communistic country for 6 months and I savor every single day. Talk about being sheltered my whole life under the blanket of American capitalism and then meeting people and hearing their experiences of the "other" side. I would have to say that I've learned more about myself, the world, "living", etc., in these past six months than in all my years of formal schooling combined.

The point of the story is that there is one main virtue that I've just now in life begun to fully understand and actually utilize. My whole it eluded me at all costs. During this current adventure (especially in the beginning phase of it), this virtue consistently reappeared in the questions I asked such as, ... "What is the benefit of all this 1 year from now, 5 years, ... 10 years? Why am I so happy to be here? "Why is this all worth while? What is it teaching me about myself?"

This virtue? ... Patience.

Then I put 2 and 2 together again thought about the other things in my life that I have been extremely successful in. Things like staying fit and watching my diet to a "T." These all constituted having extreme discipline, record keeping, passion, desire to win, etc.....and last but not least...Patience. Of course, now I'm a firm believer in the saying, "All good things come to those who wait."

I now just need to burn in my brain that the same tactics that I have utilized successfully in the other parts of my life, can no doubt be used to be successful in the market. In my opinion, ... there truly is no difference.

Now I look to the Turtle Trader program not as a "save all" to my trading future, but as tuition to implant and support my belief that I can succeed in this game.


*** P.S. I take it that you live or at least vacation somewhere in the Incline Village area. I grew up in Sacramento and have a house in Cedar Flat near King's Beach. We're practically neighbors! I think I will be traveling home to the US in April and will be in Tahoe for a few days. Is there any way to stop by one of the meetings in Incline? It would be a great pleasure of mine.

You  might show your letter to some friends to see if any of them can find any mention of feelings in it.


You may apply for the waiting list for the Incline Village Tribe. 


Consistent attendance is a requirement so "stopping by" does not qualify.





Wed, 17 Mar 2004

Options as Insurance

I have traded stocks for 3 weeks and I am curious about options as insurance against events, such as gap openings which trigger me to exit a position at a large spread from my stop price. I currently place an order to enter, upon my entry I place a stop to exit based on my predetermined exit signal, the number of shares I enter with is based upon a pre-determined dollar risk parameter of 1.5% of total equity. In addition to a stop to exit, I have been tracking option prices, always looking to buy the puts against a long position, and buy the calls against a short, the option is strictly insurance and I do not wish to sell premium. I do not have access to historical option data, my question is, have you bought options as insurance and have you found that the insurance has been worth the cost.

I am also curious to see if I have appropriately worded this question to justify a response in regard to options as insurance, or if I will need to re-word my question in a different manner – regardless, the response will be a step forward.


If you wish to use options instead of stops you might notice that the option price includes a substantial "insurance" premium.


You might simulate some strategies to determine how options fit in with the dynamics of your own trading.


To the extent that you are using options as a way to avoid your feelings of getting stopped out, you might take your feelings into TTP.


Wed, 17 Mar 2004

The Incline Village Trading Tribe

and the Zim's Group


Please put me on your waiting list for the Incline Village, Trading Tribe. I am a full time trader and full time resident of Incline Village.

[Name] and I started the "Zim's Trading Group" back in 1988. The Zim's
Group was innovative in the use of NLP practitioners as coaches. In addition
to hiring NLP coaches we also engaged people such as Charles Faulkner, Van
Tharp and others (such as yourself). The group met consistently for nine
years. As you can imagine I got great personal benefit from the group and
miss the interaction.

You have been a guest speaker at our "Strategy and Implementation" course at
Golden Gate University on a number of occasions. Much of that course was
inspired by the Zim's Group work.

I understand that your Incline group is currently full. But please consider
my name for the waiting list. In the meantime we should get together for a
cup of coffee.

Many thanks,


Wed, 17 Mar 2004

New Chart Section

Hi Ed,

I noticed your new Chart section. It is interesting to note that your readers' filtering mechanisms don't have a way to get rid of duplicates! (Northfield Laboratories NFLD) ;-)

What was your intention with the Stock Charts? I noticed a couple of things. They contain a lot of stocks below $4. Most have recently been very volatile. Most are trending up. Are you saying that your reader's don't short stocks?

If you trade stocks from the long side and your stocks do not look like the ones on the Chart Page, you might take your feelings about buying strength and trading with the trend into the Trading Tribe Process.


Tue, 16 Mar 2004


Business Proposition

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am [Name], Bank Manager, [Bank]. I have urgent and very confidential business proposition for you.

On June 6, 1998, a British Oil consultant / contractor with the [Name] Corporation, [Name] made a numbered time (Fixed) Deposit for twelve calendar months, valued at US$30,000,000.00 (Thirty Million Dollars) in my branch.

Upon maturity, I sent a routine notification to his forwarding address but got no reply. After a month, we sent a reminder and finally we discovered from his contract employers, the [Firm] that [Name] died from an automobile accident. On further investigation, I found out that he died without making a WILL, and all attempts to trace his next of kin was! fruitless.

I therefore made further investigation and discovered that [Name] did not declare any kin or relations in all his official documents, including his Bank Deposit paperwork in my Bank. This sum of US $30,000,000.00 is still sitting in my Bank and the interest is being rolled over with the principal sum at the end of each year. No one will ever come forward to claim it. According to Laws of [Country], at the expiration of 6 (six) years, the money will revert to the ownership of the [Country] Government if nobody applies to claim the fund.

Consequently my proposal is that I will like you as a foreigner to stand in as the next of kin to [Name] so that the fruits of this old man's labor will not get into the hands of some corrupt government officials.

This is simple, I will like you to provide immediately your full names and address so that the attorney will prepare the necessary documents and affidavits that will put you in place as the next of kin.


We shall employ the services of an attorney for drafting and notarization of the ILL and to obtain the necessary documents and letter of probate / administration in your favor for the transfer. A bank account in any part of the world that you will provide will then facilitate the transfer of this money to you as the beneficiary / next of kin. The money will be paid into your account for us to share in the ratio of 90% for me and 10% for you.

There is no risk at all as all the paperwork for this transaction will be done by the attorney and my position as the Branch Manager guarantees the successful execution of this transaction. If you are interested, please reply immediately via the private email address above. Upon your response, shall then provide you with more details and relevant documents that will help you understand the transaction.

Please send me your confidential telephone and fax numbers for easy communication.

Please observe utmost confidentiality, and rest assured that this transaction
would be most profitable for both of us because I shall require your assistance
to invest my share in your country.

Awaiting your urgent reply.

Thanks and regards,

I receive maybe ten similar requests per week. 


Perhaps the SEC, Justice Department or the Incline Village Sheriff can review your materials and find an appropriate placement for you and your ideas.




Placement Officer


Clip: http://www.subdural.com/



Tue, 16 Mar 2004


Should-a  Could-a  Would-a

Dear Mr. Seykota,

It is a long time ago now, that I read something about an article or book
you should have published called
"Trader's Garden" or so.

Is that true? Is it anywhere available?

FAQ does not tell people what they  should do.


I do not know if it is true that it is a long time.


I am currently writing a book - many of the ideas are currently available on this site, at Tribe Meetings and at the Workshop.

Mon, 15 Mar 2004

Trading as a Business

Are you familiar with Charlie Wright's book "Trading as a Business" ? I came across this title while searching the web for trend following CTAs and understand it is no longer in print.

See More at:






Mon, 15 Mar 2004



Results = Intentions

An alternate name for hardball might be fastball:  Results = Intentions: Fast

The fastball leaves the pitcher’s hand now, and when it crosses the plate, it is still now.

Be careful what you wish for, the present moment happens right now.

When time dissolves, so do fast and slow. 


Visualize a sphere passing through a geometric plane: the intersection is a circle, which appears to grow, then shrink.


Time-consciousness sees a changing circle, and may hold the sphere as a cause.


Now-consciousness knows the circle as the intention of the entire universe.





accepts things the way they are ...


... including people who

live in time-consciousness

and like to make up reasons.


Clip: http://www.f-lohmueller.de/


Mon, 15 Mar 2004

Considering ...


Please forward any information not appearing on this advertisement.


My friend and I trade stocks daily ... We find it interesting and would like to pursue this further ...


I do not know how to send you the not-appearing information on this (?) advertisement.


See the Workshop link above for information on the Workshop. 


Part of the Workshop deals with communicating clearly.

Mon, 15 Mar 2004

Adam Theory

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I just finish Adam Theory (1987) by Welles Wilder (quoting a lot of Jim Sloman) over the weekend.


I am curious if this is a book that you have read and influence you, or perhaps you two arrive at the same conclusion simultaneously like Newton and Leibniz to Calculus?


When I read the book, I see a lot of familiar terms (that I feel like seeing old friends) - the NOW moment, go with the flow, mirroring the market, what it IS doing now, "Is" vs. "Should", every profitable trade requires a trend (repetition).


The funny thing is, while the author spends at least half the book trying to convince the readers those concepts, and he makes it sound like it may be very difficult for most people to accept because they are so simple and so radically different from the conventional (predictive) wisdom, I actually hold a lot of the same beliefs already (grateful thanks to you sir). Reading it is just like reading my own belief!

More amazingly, Wilder reports that he pays $1 million for this "secret." (Sure it means a lot more in the mid-80s than today, a huge sum nonetheless) Even the book itself is $65, out-of-print, and difficult to find. And I have a more vivid learning experience from you via FAQ for free. I remember someone (is it you?) saying, "When the students are ready to learn, the teachers just show up ... usually free of charge." My big thank you!!




In TTP, Receivers mirror the sender. In Adam Theory, it talks about mirroring the market's action. (In other words, suppose in an ideal world where you can mimic real-time exactly what the market is doing, then you capture all the profits ... therefore, Adam follows market's own trend (or double reflection) to try to capture those profits, without judgment, without the urge to pick tops / bottoms but simply surrender to it)

Hmmm, suppose Mark (market) is on the hot seat, and I am a receiver. My job is to mirror whatever Mark is doing, feel whatever Mark is feeling, and "go with the flow" with Mark (market) ...

Hmmm, this is interesting to me ...

Trend Trading is fairly easy to explain, and fairly difficult to execute.


The impediments to sticking with a Trend Trading system seem to dissolve with consistent application of TTP.




A Fish - at One with the Water

sees nothing between himself

and his prey


A trader at one with his feelings

feels nothing between himself

and executing his method.


Clip: http://www.sacrs.org.za/ecm21/



Mon, 15 Mar 2004

Management Fund


I was wondering if Ed Seykota ran a Management Fund and if they are accepting new clients?


Please reply.


Thank you.

I do not offer a "fund" that has shares you can buy and sell.


Clients typically buy and sell fund shares according to their own psychology, so they typically over-ride the efforts of the manager.


Part of my process for accepting funds, is to support long-term compatibility with my clients, including alignment of objectives, methods and psychology.


How compatible is your present relationship and does it have long term potential ?


Personal Dating Services


make an attempt to achieve psychological compatibility between partners.


Client / Money Manager Matching Services

typically make no such attempt.


Mon, 15 Mar 2004


Copy of Letter from a Tribe Member

to another person.


Ed Seykota would have field day with all your drama concerning [Another Trader]. Obviously your Fred is trying to communicate something to your CM with your attempts to discredit [his track record]. 


You should join a trading tribe in the [your] area, get in the hot seat and have your Ahhhhhhaaaaaa moment. It works for me and a lot of other people.

Sincerely Yours,

I notice the writer of the letter seems to like to (1) analyze things and come up with obvious conclusions,  (2) label events: an attempt to discredit, (3) tell people what they should do and (4) imply allies (Seykota and a lot of other people).


He seems to be a master of the little known Third Rail of TTP (sending, receiving and telling off.)


To his credit he does not resort to demanding to know why, or invoke "neener, neener, neener."

Mon, 15 Mar 2004

Issues: Confronting  or Experiencing

Is it more natural to confront issues directly to the person that the issue relates to (although that person may not be yet be receptive to receiving) or does experiencing the issue with the Tribe work just fine?

I feel that having supportive receivers is important. At the same time I also feel that an issue may not dissolve until an experience with the relevant individual (i.e. my girlfriend).

Experiencing underlying feelings is Fred's agenda. 


Once you complete the process, Fred no longer needs to hijack your situation as a vehicle for creating drama.


At that point, your issue becomes an opportunity for dis-solution, rather than for solution.





Fred uses whatever is handy,

including hair,

to spin dramas.


Clip: http://longhair.sinfree.net/


Mon, 15 Mar 2004

Check In

Dear Ed,

I am happy to tell you that [Our Tribe's] receiving and sending skills are improving at an alarming rate.

I feel amazement at how the other members (receivers) can sense issues that have not even come to my mind, but subconsciously they know it is there and they bring it up to my shock.

Most importantly they are there to support everyone’s feelings and be there for us all the way.

The most memorable post you have is one about resistors:

Ed says:


By nature, we resist things we don't like. In the Trading Tribe, we work with each other to help each other experience such things. Otherwise we become what we resist.

After experiencing the issue (about being potentially being a homosexual) … it magically dissolves … then an aha laughter follows … The real issue I have is confronting the issue and finding out it is true.

Similarly, the same feelings come up when we play “Hard Ball” … the question that looms in my head and other members: Do I really want to trade?

The same feelings appear (chest pounding and hair on my back raising) … the feeling of being scared of the realization that “trading is not for me / I am a homosexual”. I feel afraid of confronting this question because it might be true and I don’t want to face it and I want to keep denying it. And when I go through the process, I experience an aha realizing what I really want – trading … and a woman. In fact, after the process, it reinforces my strong intentions of being a successful trader in my own right and as a wonderful husband.

“I become what I resist” … until I experience it. Powerful stuff!!!

The Process is amazing … simply amazing. Hah (speechless.)

Thank you Trading Tribe and Chief Ed!!!



One confirmation for completion of a TTP issue is noticing it no longer bothers you. 


When you jump into the void, you seem to lose consciousness, and then re-awaken into a new consciousness.


Trying to track an issue logically into the void seems to impede the process.



NASA Scientists

Try to Track Phase Transitions

 into the Void


Every trick used still couldn't show exactly what's going on during this transformation of liquid to crystalline solid. In addition, little information was obtained about the dynamics of the processes.


Clip: science.nasa.gov/ssl/msad/ xray/xraypg2.htm

Mon, 15 Mar 2004


Dear Ed,

Hi! I am very very glad to find this homepage.

I am now writing this from Japan. Please let me introduce myself first. I am a 36 years old woman and began to do currency trade last year. Though I am a psychiatrist, I was sometimes impulsive and I lost money frequently. I reconsider much about trade and since last month I have read many books about technical analysis and MARKET WISARDS. From reading books of technical analysis, I could find that trend follow system was very effective and now I try it. I found I was a mere gambler before and I know I must study more and more if I want to do well.

From MARKET WISARDS, I found many attractive persons. I respect them much and I respect you best. I sought your name in internet and I could found this homepage. I want to attend your meeting, but in Japan I cannot find them. What can I do?

I am sorry I am not good at English. I study it every day and will study more. I can read and write English, but it may be difficult for me to understand native English conversation ...


You might consider experiencing your sorrow.  To the extent you are unwilling to celebrate your feelings, Fred tends to set up dramas, like not learning English and losing money in the markets, to get you to notice your feelings.


If you wish to contact me in person, see Private Consulting at the bottom of the FAQ Home Page.





Drama Follows Feelings

you don't want to experience


Clip: www.kernsvision.com/ gallery.htm

Sun, 14 Mar 2004



I have found some typos in Charles' article. The article is very informative and so is the site! Thanks.

Paragraph 6
Line 8: We realize what what

Paragraph 8
Line 1: Though a mix
Line 12: changed we set

Paragraph 9
Line 3: becomes judgments
Line 4/5: ones to treasured
Line 6: are be minimized

Paragraph 10
Line 11: the your range

Paragraph 14
Line 4: our every breathe.

Thanks for the being careful in reading and caring enough to share your corrections.


FAQ, like Microsoft, relies on subscribers for quality control.



Microsoft & FAQ


are Places Where the Customers

Help Develop the Product



Clip: www.ephpod.com/

listserver-archives/ 2559.html

Sat, 13 Mar 2004


Just Some Random Thoughts Today

Dear Sir,

Hmmmm, interesting, I may take my feelings about being my own boss to TTP. Regarding my random thought on having the privilege to trade, and thus implying some higher authority awarding permission, you are right on.

The thought comes from seeing another trader in my group, who is somewhat reckless. He has made over half a million in one trade one day, but over the last three years, he has lost money every single year. Listening to him, he sounds like he knows what he is doing, and a very smart and diligent student of the market. Yet, the result is, he is never profitable.

That day, I was long the S&P from previous night when in the morning it looks like the market will gap down, which will be below my stop. I am getting ready to take my loss at the open, even though we share the same view that the market may rebound much higher right from the open. I still want to follow my rules, and only reenter if the market move back up 3 handles from its low. So I offer to cross with him my 180 S&P minis at the open.

He said, "I'd love to take it, but my limit is only 25 minis." I was shocked, because he has swung something like 500 big contracts, which is like 2500 minis. But because of his recklessness, he is now limited to only 25.

And of course, it is our manager who decides the limit. You are right that I feel there is a higher authority awarding permission. That's how it works here. In every organization there are rules, even FAQ has its own ground rules. The manager gives us freedom to do whatever we feel right within a risk limit. And so when I hear the guy who has traded 2500 is now limited to 25, I realize it is a privilege for me to trade and I should not take it for granted.

Anyway. Just my little story.

You can find lots of bold traders and lots of old traders.  You can't find many old bold traders.







Displays Bold Coloration

and Only Lasts a Short While



Clip: http://members.iinet.net.au/