from Ed in Red)
Wed, 21 Apr 2004
Workshop in NY?
The 2 NY Tribes wondered if you would consider conducting a workshop with us
We have access to
suitable facilities (where we hold our Saturday intensives). If this piques
your interest, please advise regarding your fees. We expect 10 to 12 to
you would like me to present a Workshop in your area, see FAQ Ground Rules
on the FAQ Home Page - at Workshops.
In particular, send me your telephone number.
Wed, 21 Apr 2004
re: Family Process
...I have been encouraging her to express her feelings more directly and I
am lending her an attentive, compassionate ear to her "protective
Talking about feelings, and expressing feelings both
have a place.
TTP is about encouraging someone to deeply experience their own feelings.
This typically accompanies vivid recollections, considerable somatic display
and leads to a palpable release of tension.
Yes. I wish to push the experience a little further. That's the best I
could get with one of the most talkative, analytical and fundamental minds
one might ever get to know. I get mad about this. This madness is a
vivid experience which has already led me into considerable somatic display
at some instances.
you can count on your aunt (who may be highly analytical, emotionally
distant) to bring you deep into your anger about her personality - and if
you can count on her to keep encouraging you to take your feelings about her
to term - knowing you intend to get free of her influence - then maybe your
Family Process can work.
people who intend to master TTP practice in a group without built-in
keep posting this column with the latest chapter of your story; this
indicates your intention is to invite TTP (and this column) into your drama,
rather than to use TTP to dissolve your drama and achieve freedom.
you wish to get agreement for your point of view, so you can further
invalidate your aunt.
might consider confronting your aunt with the direct and quite devastating
maneuver of putting your thumb to the side of your nose and saying,
"Neener, neener, neener!"
Version #1: An
eccentric woman adopts an orphan boy and introduces him to a variety of
experiences. She eventually becomes wealthy when a millionaire she marries
dies in an accident.
Version #2: A
clever man discovers that his skill at concealing his feelings qualifies him
for a life in politics. He becomes Mayor of his town and appoints his aunt
as Judge. She manipulates him into losing his temper in public and has him
arrested for being too pushy and sentences him to attend anger management
classes. He retaliates by writing a series of letters to the local
Wed, 21 Apr 2004
How to Run a Tribe Meeting
I read your conversation about “How to Run a Tribe Meeting” and liked it
very much. I don’t think you need any books on how to write a book. They
may interfere with your writing style which is very expressive and has a
nice edge to it. I read a short story by Jack Kerouac once and for some
reason your writing style reminded me of his writing style. I think that is
a good thing.
Your conversation made me I think about the “unseen force of the
Under-Fred network” and feel that force is a universal, true and powerful
force that gets its strength from living in the “now”.
My experiences have taught me that to live in the past depresses my feelings
and to live in the future makes me anxious so that leaves only one place to
live in peace and that is the here and now. And that’s a good thing too.
you for the encouragement - I'm still finding my "voice."
March 12, 1922
On the Road
becomes a leading spokesman
the Beat Movement.
Wed, 21 Apr 2004
No Time ...
copy to FAQ
There is no time like the Present is a wonderful article ...
Thanks again ... very helpful to me ...
you participate regularly in a Tribe, and would like to write a report to
help clarify TTP for others, send it to FAQ for publication on the
To: Pollinators Page
Tue, 20 Apr 2004
Upside Down Air
Hi Ed. I've been reading FAQ over the last couple of days. I can't imagine
what folks might want in the frequently-requested book from you. You should
tell them to go FAQ themselves - it's all there. Great stuff.
Took a break from the TT FAQ tonight and dove into RM. Wow!
It sparked an idea for a dramatic demonstration of the concept. One
might install an air hockey table upside down, hanging from the ceiling (or
propped up from the floor.) Have two players hanging from Gravity Boots
hooked on steel tubes on either end of the table play a game of air hockey
upside down. RM, if I understand the levitation experiment correctly, would
seem to keep the puck well attached to the playing surface, would it not?
active region has a radius of about 1/8 inch for each pinhole, so if the
spacing between holes is, say 1 inch, I'd guess your demo might work.
can test it by attaching a handle to the top of a puck and
"weighing" it with the air pump on and off.
more on this, see www.radialmomentum.com
hard part is getting your hair
stay in place.
Tue, 20 Apr 2004
For example, many of your aunt's feelings are about
you - so if she expresses the depth of her feelings it may very well
"plug you in" to the point you are no longer able to support her
to "go all the way."
Yes. Exactly. It's quite demanding. In spite of that, we're doing progress.
Usually, rather than starting with the feelings part that we both naturally
avoid, we pick up a specific goal, much like in the Hardball Process, and we
commit to the Process of tracking and validating the feelings until clarity
is achieved. Also, we might experiment with proclaiming things like:
"I like to be free; I like to be happy; I like to profit; I cut losses
short", and then we do the tracking part until again clarity is
achieved. It seems that we both are getting quite skilled in doing this and
it eases our way into the Process.
Other technique I have found is very interesting and effective, is removing
the element of time from our story telling until we are left with our
existential experience of the "now" moment, and then feelings
easily flourish again. TTP, like trading, is an existential truth, not an
intellectual one, and it happens "now".
I read one of the reports in the Pollinators page and I have found that's
quite the case in my issue.
My aunt's feelings
about me are deeply rooted in bad experiences with other family members. And
she is so anxious and frightened that the misfortune might happen to me too,
that when she tells me, it does feel like conviction, faith and will, rather
than a mere feeling. I acknowledge that, unconsciously, she actually wants
to get me into trouble.
And she has
already got me into, a lot of times. I have other two aunts who have the
same feelings, in varying degrees. If self-direction is a requisite for
freedom, that's especially my case. Yet, I have been encouraging her to
express her feelings more directly and I am lending her an attentive,
compassionate ear to her "protective warnings".
Over the past
years, I have tried to run away from this situation and run away from their
issues. Now I am taking the path back into getting our family ties stronger,
healthier and more affectionate.
about feelings, and expressing feelings both have a place.
is about encouraging someone to deeply experience their own feelings.
typically accompanies vivid recollections, considerable somatic display and
leads to a palpable release of tension.
a Lizard Between your Toes
not the same as
you are passing through
don't really care
once dismissed emotions as an illogical nuisance. But by the 1980's,
researchers had begun to consider emotions useful in their own right.
"Emotions and the response tendencies that go with them help guide our
reactions to the world," Dr. Galen V. Bodenhausen, director of the
social psychology program at Northwestern University, said.
thought is great in a lot of circumstances where you have time and latitude
to do it. But emotions provide rapid, immediate guidance, a gut
-- NY Times April
Wed, 21 Apr 2004
Two Want to Fly Over
Now there are two of us from Adelaide that want to go - we trade together
but can we wire the funds over - if so please provide details and we will
send over the rego form via mail.
given we are in Australia - concerned that the funds will not get there in
time if we posted them
and ... thanks for responding to my email - understood exactly what you
meant - but
have yet to experience it
all the best
the Workshop Page for enrollment instructions.
Tue, 20 Apr 2004
New Community (South Africa)
... I live in
Durban , South Africa ... I would like to start a Trading Tribe in South
the Directory Page
Tue, 20 Apr 2004
I started playing poker (Texas Hold 'em) online the other day as a way to
sharpen my reactions to trading and life in general...
Funny but this game seems a lot like successful trading to me ...
1. Play this game in the present moment of now (play what you have in your
hand, not what you are HOPING to get).
2. Cut losing hands (by folding early after the flop or even before) and let
winning hands run.
3. Manage the risk in each hand by never letting your bet level get out of
hand in accordance with your capital ...
Thought I would share my findings.
the principles of Trend Trading seem to apply to many fields.
"Amarillo Slim" Preston
Series of Poker Winner,
big fan of Texas Hold 'em,
the action at a final round
Slim, in his
autobiography, talks about the importance of reading your opponents' tells
(mannerisms that reveal their hands). Slim is evidently an excellent
Tue, 20 Apr 2004
Wanting to Lose
I like to share a recent TTP experience.
This time I decide to work on a non-trading issue, I selected weight loss.
I am in my early 40's, my weight for the last 5 years is stuck between 200
Lbs and 205 Lbs, more recently near the upper range. I also have slightly
elevated cholesterol level but the bad cholesterol ( LDL I think ) is quite
elevated. I have history of heart disease and cancer in our family, so they
say early 40's is a good time to start taking aggressive action. The problem
I just love to eat, I just love food.
My goal is to loose 15 Lbs, so I make a snapshot of me thin and lean, 15 Lbs
lighter, full of health and energy.
TTP session # 1
( Group session )
I immediately felt sensations around my mouth, the feeling of munching on a
chocolate éclair, moving my mouth, tasting the cream inside, savoring every
moment. This went on for a few minutes.
The next feeling I get is someone standing behind me by my left shoulder, it
is my dad, telling me time and time again to loose weight. I feel the
imprint of his hand on my back. I really feel his hand on my shoulder and
back area, much like a hand imprint on wax, his hand has gone 1/2 inch
within my body. I hear his words in my ears time and time again to loose
weight and look after my health. I really experience the weight of his hand
and his words like a mantra.
This feeling passes. Session lasts about 25 minutes. Due to time constraints
we had to end this session.
Background: My father has a very unhealthy relationship towards me. Being an
only child, he is obsessive compulsive towards my welfare and well being.
Overly possessive. I can't stand it. I hate him for being that way.
Result: no improvement in my eating habits or weight loss.
TTP session # 2
( A week later,
one on one session with another tribe member)
Again immediately the feelings around my mouth show up, savoring every
little piece of that chocolate éclair. yum yum yum. Oh, how good the
chocolate on top feels and the custard inside. feelings last about 5
minutes,. This feeling passes.
The next feeling is this curios feeling, just above my navel. I feel a
hollow space, a empty space about 3 inches wide, it is dark inside, very
quite. The walls are rubbery and black. I really feel the walls and feel the
quietness, the darkness. I really feel the walls of this space. I get a
strong feeling all of a sudden and aha, that the feeling of how much I miss
my mom resides in that dark space, how much I miss my mom, this feeling of
being distant from my mom has created this void in me, this emptiness, I
miss my mom. My heart aches for her, I really miss my mom. This empty
feeling of missing my mom. So I really experience those feelings and this
dark rubbery walls of this space.
The session ends after about 25 minutes. No more feelings to report.
Background: I wanted to be distant from my dad, I just can't stand him. So
as a result I pushed both my parents away including my mom. But my mom is so
intelligent, so bright, so non intrusive, never gives me any advice. So all
these years, when I say all these years I mean something like 20+ years, I
pushed her away as well. I really miss you mom.
This to me is a
ordinary TTP session, there is no out pouring of emotions etc. So I didn't
think much of it.
This tribe member and I after the session go out to have dinner. We go to
this Indian restaurant and order a fabulous meal. I sit there, savor every
moment of it.
Something very interesting happened ... two thirds into the meal I just
felt full, I didn't feel like eating any more. So I just put my fork
down..... hmm I thought to myself, this is very interesting, I just feel
full, I mean in the past I would have licked the plates clean, but now just
feel full, leaving all this food on the plate ...
Then I came home that night, it is the Passover weekend, and a Jewish
neighbor had given us some macaroons, a traditional Passover dessert. In the
past I would return from TTP, make tea and have 5 or 6 of these little
macaroons. After returning home this time, I took a bite out of one , put
down the half on the counter. Made tea and then ate the other half. Had no
'urge' to have another one. and I though to myself this is very interesting
what is going on.
Well, much to my amazement it has been over a week and I am actually
eating 1/3 less food.
1)The effect on me of that TTP session is very similar to people who have
surgery to staple their stomachs. They just feel full after eating a small
2) The second very interesting effect is that I don't have this 'urge' or
craving for food in the first place now.
The next day while sitting at home alone, I thought of my mother, and how
much I missed her, the tears just came poring out of me. I cried and cried
and how much I miss her. Even writing this email, when I think of my mom,
the tears just pour down my cheeks...being an only child how close at one
time I was to my mom, and how distant I feel now, especially with her living
in an other country...This is the first time I have cried for my mom, first
time is about 25 years when I was sent to a boarding school in England. I
had to be strong, so I suppressed my feelings of missing my mom, then again
I had to push her away due to my dad.
It all makes sense to me now, that void I felt with the rubbery walls in my
stomach in the TTP session, that quite dark place is this feeling of longing
I have for my mom.
The vacuum, so I
try to fill this vacuum with food. Food comforts me, it makes me feel good
temporally and tones down the subconscious longing I have for my mom.
It now makes sense
feeling empty inside---->urge to eat---->make picture of
food-->feeling of taste/savor the food---> take action, eat food......
So now, if I don't have that "empty feeling inside" me, that void
of missing my mom, that needs to be filled, I just don't have that strong
Urge to eat.
So its been a week and no I have not magically lost 15 Lbs, but I am
committed to the process and committed to feeling whatever feelings that
stand in the way of me losing the weight, improving my health, improving my
relationship with my dad and my mom, improving my trading ... Interesting
Thank you so much for sharing this TTP with us Ed
All the best
might also, at some point, take your feelings about regular exercise into
Mon, 19 Apr 2004
Ed, I have another pattern with my aunt. She cares about me. Yet, she has
a lot of fear, anxiety and bad feelings about my welfare, that she always
communicates in indirect and subtle ways. She's also always had great
influence upon me and I feel very "destabilized" by her opinions
and feelings. As a matter of fact, I feel as if that which she fears
I suggest you keep telling stories about your
situation, and avoid experiencing your feelings, and be sure to avoid taking
your feelings to a Tribe Meeting for as long as you can.
Well, she's the one I have been doing my TTP meetings with. Thanks for the
a Tribe with someone you know, someone with whom you have issues, can be
example, many of your aunt's feelings are about you - so if she expresses
the depth of her feelings it may very well "plug you in" to the
point you are no longer able to support her to "go all the way."
might consider learning TTP with people with whom you have little historical
investment - so you can more easily maintain commitment to the process, no
matter what comes up.
you and your aunt become individually skillful at TTP, you may be able to
import in into your relationship.
Pollinator Report: How to Conduct a Tribe Meeting for more on the
tendency of dysfunctional families to protect the status quo.
Mon, 19 Apr 2004
Re: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 Capital -
Thanks for your reply to my post. It has given me food for thought,
experience and action for the past few weeks.
I take the feeling of being too small into my conception of the process with
my girlfriend as receiver.
As an entry point
I imagine my system (and by extension, myself) being pooh-poohed by the
investment community, being judged flimsy and illegitimate.
This does not
evoke much response as I envisage this scenario taking place only when the
moment of now has climbed a few more rungs of the evolutionary ladder.
However I do get a
warm, liquid, reddish feeling across the temples, and a prickly feeling
across the shoulders. To home in on the feeling I recall walking home from
school as a little boy with a bad report from my teachers. I recall wishing
I could slow down time so that the moment of truth never arrives.
I notice strong
tension in the back of my neck. It is a dull, dark, wooden sensation, and
creeps across the back of my shoulders and makes its way down the backs of
my arms to the backs of my hands. I scan the rest of my body and observe the
same sensation at the base of my spine; it gradually moves its way up my
back and joins the feeling at the back of my neck.
My head feels
dark, leaden and heavy. I go with it and sink with the feeling until I am
squatting with my head between my knees. The tension increases along the
backs of my arms and I wrap them around my knees. I scan for further nuances
of texture/color, and notice that the color I would give to the feelings all
over me would be black.
Then I realize
that I am in the same body position as someone in a state of catatonic
depression. The thought makes me alarmed; I feel fear! The feeling of fear
is diametrically opposite to what had come before. It is a cold, liquid,
electric, white flash which surges up from the pit of my stomach through my
sternum; it floods the FRONT of my shoulders and rushes down the INSIDE of
my arms to the centre of my palms. I go with it and rise to my feet. I
notice that my senses are sharper than previously. I am standing straighter
than usual and am feeling very alert and alive. I leave it at that for a
I mull over this experience for a few weeks, not trying to figure it out
but remembering how it felt, and then a few nights ago, the significance of
it hits me with such a force that I lay awake for hours, buzzing with
The whole point of
what we call 'fear' is to sharpen the senses, to make us assess the risks
and rewards of the situation in which we find ourselves with the highest
level of acuteness that our faculties possess. The intention of what we
could call 'despair' or 'despondency' is to signal to us that we are faced
with a dangerous situation in which we should not take any risks, just
accept the inevitable and weather out the storm.
I link these insights with emotions that I have experienced when trading. I
feel 'fear' when a position is going my way. When I feel this 'fear' I now
know to use it to investigate other opportunities while my mind is at its
keenest, and not to watch every tick of the market and end up getting out of
a good position because of not understanding the fear.
I feel despair,
despondency, hope-against-hope when a position is going against me. This is
the time to put my head down, accept the inevitable and get out at the
predetermined point, and NOT to stay in a losing position and hope it will
These are pretty simple insights, but they lead me to fully understand and
integrate the ubiquitous advice about hope and fear being detrimental to the
successful trader. However I no longer view these emotions as enemies to be
guarded against, but as possibly the staunchest allies that I (maybe even
all of us) possess.
I don't know how this fits into feeling too small, but I am sure that the
understanding is working its way towards the surface. Thanks!
Work - for noticing and reporting feelings as somatic properties - and for
finding positive intentions for deep feelings.
Mon, 19 Apr 2004
I wanted to ask you who are the other two people in the May workshop:
Charles Faulkner and Easan Katir?
Click on the link near the top of the Workshop Page for a Link to
Faulkner. Katir is an active member of the Incline Village Trading
Mon, 19 Apr 2004
Visitor from NY
Just wanted to let you know about the wonderful community your tribe work is
building. [Name] from the NY tribe is holidaying in Australia and offered to
meet up with our tribe in Sydney. We weren't able to hold a meeting due to
his tight schedule but we were able to spend a few hours over dinner where
we "grilled" him. Thank you so much [Name] for your generosity,
you cleared up a lot of things for us and I'm looking forward to our next
meeting where we can apply them.
Mon, 19 Apr 2004
While reading the FAQ (f.e. In a Paradox Sun, 28 Mar 2004)
I see that there is an opinion that you should do what you love, do what you
want to do ( I agree) and not to be concerned with the results (?). I don't
know, but to me, it's not very responsible.
Let's say I want
to make music, write songs. So I do it, all day long, with passion...I am
very committed and confident about what I want to create, but my music is 4
decades ahead of my time, and no one seems to like it and doesn't want to
We live in a
world, the system is like it is - capitalism, money, work etc ... No one
will give you anything for free ... So I come to the point where I have
no financial resources, not a dime to buy a meal. What now?
You could answer:
You wanted to write music - you did!
You said nothing about eating - so you don't eat!
But you can't live without eating. So eventually I have to give up music
and find a job.
Considering that I
have spent the last 5 years writing music, and there is a bunch of wise
guys, strait out of university, 24 y old, with 6 internships, 3 degrees, 5
languages etc. It seem like the competition doesn't sleep. So what are the
jobs left? Probably not something that I love ...
I know that if I want a high living standard, I have to earn it, decide what
I want, money-music. But my point is, you have to get the money to live, but
it is sometimes hard to make money by doing what you love.
So you can't do
what you love ... Should we devise some kind of compromise? But a compromise
is caused by concerns in the results. What do You think?
One answer I might expect is: You might take your feelings of concerns
into the process. OK, but there is no TT around. What would be a different
... I wonder how much you are paying me so you can read FAQ ...
play the banjo - as part of a volunteer bluegrass orchestra - we play
benefits for assisted living facilities. According to you, I suppose I
might give that up and go look for a job.
join or form a Tribe, see the Directory page and the Pollinator pages.
be sure you don't experience your feelings about things being hard,
difficult and impossible ... unless you are willing to have things be easy
- Toil and Trouble Process
Head and Pull Handle
image is negative
Sun, 18 Apr 2004
Your father can control you, only to the extent that
you, in turn, are trying to control him.
If you don't care what he does, he has no control.
You might take your feelings about control into TTP.
Yes. Ed, I have another pattern with my aunt. She cares about me. Yet, she
has a lot of fear, anxiety and bad feelings about my welfare, that she
always communicates in indirect and subtle ways. She's also always had great
influence upon me and I feel very "destabilized" by her opinions
and feelings. As a matter of fact, I feel as if that which she fears comes
suggest you keep telling stories about your situation, and avoid
experiencing your feelings, and be sure to avoid taking your feelings
to a Tribe Meeting for as long as you can.
See Pollinator Pages about how to conduct a Tribe Meeting.
are Super Strong
can destabilize people
having ant-like thoughts.
Fri, 16 Apr 2004
I have been following your website for over a year. I would like to know
more about DIM. [Doing it myself].
I really don't
think I have feelings. I calm my mind, think about the feeling, NOTHING,
just blank. I think you will tell me to go to a tribe meeting, or to start
Being from a very
rural area, I decided to start a tribe. I had only 2 responses. One contact
was over 4-5 hours away, the other one had a undeliverable email address.
I seem to be stuck
in such rut over the last year. I have traded for years, I now seem more
nervous, confused, emotional, that I have ever been.
I told my wife
about TTP, she didn't seem very interested in helping me. I don't know any
other people who trade. How's the best way to experience feelings?
I think I am my worst enemy. Please help me with DIM.
(Do It Myself) is an attempt to intellectualize TTP and apply the method on
works about as well as intellectualizing sex, and doing it on your own.
essential process of TTP is to experience feelings that you don't
like. By nature, this is something you not only do not want to do, it
is something you actively avoid.
putting yourself on the hot seat, you allow others to mid-wife you through
the feelings and out to freedom.
not the same as doing them
Fri, 16 Apr 2004
Prepared to Fly
I read that you do one-on-one meetings and I am prepared to get on a plane
from [Place] if you think you can help me.
In a nutshell - I am 48 years old - have been studying trading and
periodically trying to trade - with spasmodic success since 1986 - but
nowhere near the potential that my back testing results have achieved.
Last November I took every signal in my FX model and did not make one
execution error - I was very pleased - also made some money coincidentally.
So what has it taken me until April to re-start?
It pains me to admit that I do not find the trading process enjoyable
- I want to - I want to so much - but that little shortcut from FRED
generates a flight response before I realize what I have done.
Ed this does not happen all the time - I have had glimpses of stress free
So why trade?
Money? In small part maybe.
I just sense that the answer to what I perceive to be an underperformance in
many areas of my life relative to my perceived potential, is the obstacle
that prevents me from being a happy trader - a knot perhaps?
Having read all of your website and a mountain of books (plus a week with
[Trading Coach], some time with [Trader] in 1990 and [Trading Coach #2]'s
course) - I found no answer to something that was and still is deeply
troubling and that is ...
Some days when I am making money and doing all that I should (see, feel,
act) - I still resent/or unhappy with the trading process.
For years I
would hide or feel ashamed of what I was trying to achieve in this arena -
which is a shame because I have spent what must be 2-3000 hours building
and now simplifying a trading approach with limited capital to make it easy
That's how I see my issues / stories at present.
I have emailed the Adelaide TT but no response - perhaps ... it has been
Any help etc you can provide would of course be gratefully received.
Lastly - I used to be a teacher - I miss that element of my make up - I
though trading was a most un-altruistic endeavor - now here you are using
trading as a powerful metaphor to becoming a better person. That is what I
want to achieve as well.
I started this journey in 1986 - I will not give up - but obviously I need
some more effective tools to help me to next level - hence this call for
Thanks for listening and keep up the good works
does not aim to make trading enjoyable or stress-free or happy or to relieve
aims for you to experience your feelings deeply. Typically, they then become
your allies rather than your adversaries.
you wish to see me in person, see the link to Private Consulting, at the
bottom of the Ground Rules Page.
might consider attending the Workshop - see the Workshop page.
not a requirement for trading.
to experience sadness
interfere with profitable trading.
Thu, 15 Apr 2004
Hi Ed ,
I think I know
your opinion on leaps options and I understand how they can be traded in
a trend. Short term options 6 months or less decay too fast time-wise to be
Have you heard of
Auto Trade in the options industry?
of it is trades are on auto pilot. When stops are hit the trade is done.
I don't know if
this would change your opinion of short term options?
I don't know
what to trade there are to many choices. Like beautiful women they please
Fred but don't touch.
you are thinking of using Auto Trade, or another form of trading system - or
even a live trader, you might like to find out, in advance, if the trading
style, historical profitability and volatility all fit you.
might consider the possibility that many women like touching.
always know what to do
survive very nicely, in the now
a woman's touch