from Ed in Red)
Fri, 31 Oct 2003
Hi Ed, my Chief,
How are things
with you ? ! ~ # $ & etc.
What an incredible week ... experiencing feelings ... AHAs
Monday morning I had eleven positions holding, two of them were not
consistent. One was a winner and one was a looser. At 7:26 am I sold a
looser and at 7:36 I sold the winner.
Since then I've
been consistent. On Thursday I had a chance to experience the process at
work as I have exited at my stop-loss price at 12:58 pm when thinking
"don't do anything till tomorrow."
AHA, what I've
noticed is that I just did the right thing first and then thought about it,
interesting. For number lovers my account grew 7% this week and I'm on my
way to accomplishing my goal ... Feeling of purpose is in my bones, my
flash, skin, eyeballs, hands, feet, my whole body.
commitment daily, hourly, all the time, now. Been playing drums and dancing
quite a bit this week. My kids and wife talking about feelings, UGH, ...
with partners, band members, everyone,
the time and the best is they don't even know it. Going to pick up my kids
from school now.
By for now and have a great weekend.
Ed, all this week I've been having this question in my head: How do I
joyfully serve lots of people by making them rich and powerful in ten
minutes a day? I'm joyfully making a few people money in eight hours a day
now. New snapshot for me, you are a proof of possibility for me. Thank you
again, words can't describe my feelings for you.
Fri, 31 Oct 2003
I've recently discovered your Trading Tribe site and have thoroughly enjoyed
the interchanges. You've mentioned diversification as an important component
My question is: what
is the diversifying variable with respect to stocks?
With futures, I believe that variable to be the market families - grains,
With stocks I'd
assume it would be the market sectors - defense, semiconductors, etc. Is my
does not endorse traders or commercial products, or offer
instrument-specific trading advice, or recommend specific trading system
parameters. See ground rules.
Fri, 31 Oct 2003
Me and Fred,
Fred and me, Us ...
It seems that when you refer to "Fred" you are referring to the
sub-conscious, or the unconscious.
Defining Fred as
everything which is not in the front, but rather in the background and
having structural capabilities (handy to drive a car for instance) do you
not envision a situation where Fred is cooperating with your conscious
decisions in the sense that it is actually helping you out?
I spent 3 years of my life "learning about the markets". Since I
don't work I was able to afford 3 years of chart looking day in and day out.
Opened 3 trading accounts and went bust. The first time went bust with
USD10K because I simply didn't know anything, the second time because I
still didn't know anything (another USD10K) and the third time (another
USD10K) because I still didn't know anything. It is a lot more expensive to
think that one is ignorant when one really isn't! So here comes Fred!
One day I was watching the market with daily bars on and Fred tells me:
"See the slope of a short MA? Buy dips of momentum on a smaller time
frame when it slopes up and sell rallies when it slopes down!"
"What"? says I? Took me a couple of weeks to build that in an
objective manner and write it all down in a manual format. IT WORKS! The
longer the time period the HIGHER the chances of anything working! DAY
TRADING IS A LIE! OS I spent 2 months following "Freddie" - my
method with paper money and registering each and every trade.
There's nothing to know about the markets in terms of "price
structure", "cycles", "solar projections",
"planet movements", "full moon and new moon" (I was a
sucker I know and he knows too but he finds it funny and we laugh in peace!)
. Just get a high probability method This thing is ONLY about PROBABILITIES
and Fred plays a VERY BIG ROLE in it!
Then I started trading it with USD250,000, R=2%. No guessing, all written
down. The first month 31%, the second month 10%, the third month 20% and so
on. Am now in my 5th month. I noticed this: One day I swear I knew the
market wasn't going to go up BUT I acted according to the rules. The entry
was inefficient, the stop was activated and the balance was reduced by 2%.
Now this is perfectly normal.
But then I
experienced this: One day I wasn't really "unified" as I call it
and unaware that I was second guessing the market. Fred, from the background
told me this: "You've got to be kidding me. Are you denying my
input?" Immediately I became ware of the whole thing ...
So, Fred doesn't have to be an antagonist. It is one such bastard if there
are problems running but otherwise he is the best mate one can expect to
The problem however is this: this thing of trading is entirely mechanical
and there is hardly anything in it which can be used to work with in terms
of studying. So I've decided to return to college and start a Master's. If I
like it I'll go for a PhD. On the right the two screens for the trading
method, on the left the two screens for the word processor. Just lance at
the right every now and then and in the mean time read and/or study for the
Hip Hip hurrah Fred!
PS: Thanks for your interview in "Market Wizards". I've learned
more with you than ...
you are calling Fred sounds more like your intuition or your inner voice.
conveys information as experience and feeling, such as an ache, a pressure,
a longing feeling, etc. - rarely as conscious analytics.
intends to assist Fred and CM to communicate about feelings. Out of
this alchemy, you might receive an AHA, or enhance the intuition you report.
may have a drama going on with following the advice from your own inner
voice ... you might take your experience of this into TTP.
of Fred and CM might assist you in removing some of the drama from acting on
and CM Can Cooperate
Fri, 31 Oct 2003
This year is the first time I've been consistently down. After 8 profitable
years I neither planned or expected to do this badly.
The effects on my
thought processes have been dramatic, my recent thoughts have focused on
getting a job back in the financial sector to get back on track.
The more I've thought about going back to work the worse my trading has
become, it feels as if I am sabotaging my trading so I will have to find a
job (self fulfilling).
The other day a good friend came round to see me, he asked how things were
etc. I replied that I was very well but the trading was not and so I was
about to start looking for a job, he could not believe it so he started
asking me questions. Following is part of our conversation key me=m,
f: so what's gone wrong?
m: dunno, bad trading / decisions I guess maybe I was just lucky before
f: what's this (pointing to my trading system on one of my monitors)
m: that's what I use to determine the trend then I follow a particular
strategy to enter the market the same way as the trend and exit when my stop
f: so it doesn't work
m: no most of my losses come from my own decisions I then use the system to
see whether I should be in the trade, I see something form an opinion and
put the trade on
f: why don't you just use your system
at this point I was embarrassed to admit what I had been doing, a feeling of
foolishness and stupidity rolled into 1 and slight dizziness, I had put all
my experience into developing this "thing" and yet was selecting
when to use it, or even worse ignoring it altogether.
I started talking what came out surprised me, here are some of my comments
as I recall them
"I feel guilty everyone keeps on going on about how lucky I am"
"It doesn't feel like work, I need to get a job"
"My system is better at trading than I am"
"I can't follow it now its to late"
"sometimes its too easy, doesn't feel fair"
Thanks for listening Ed, you and your site are truly unique.
use of TTP is to locate and dissolve the feelings that stand between you and
following your system.
a feeling dissolves, it ceases to be your enemy and begins to be your one of
follow not following your plan
help you follow it.
Fri, 31 Oct 2003
I took time off
from trading for a few months ... I am now restarting my trading activities
solely focused on FX.
My question is: FX
seems to be a different animal compared to exchange traded markets. There
appears to be a cost or profit of carry because of interest rate
"fundamental information" worth worrying about given the obvious
costs over time?
as an object to justify worrying, fundamental information works pretty well.
approach is to take your feelings of worry into TTP for resolution.
Whatever Shall I Do ...
I run out of things to worry about
Thu, 30 Oct 2003
Post Workshop -
What a great workshop! At first I was concerned about the cost. I was
pleasantly surprised with the valuable information and the TTP experience.
I found out after the seminar that my aunt died and then, when I returned to
work Wednesday my company laid off about ten good workers! One of them was a
good friend of mine who was trained by me (A 51 year old guy.). What a way
to return home!
This and the previous lay off (There have been many rounds this year.) made
me really think. Five months ago my direct supervisor was getting married.
He just bought 2 fairly new cars had a mortgage and a baby on the way. He
got laid off 1 month before his wedding!
I had better get to business with my trading and keep debt free!
The point is that my snapshot almost came true about me working from home
(Not the way I intended though). Since the Workshop I have decided to change
my snapshot and not to fall back in my chair if I have a great trade. Good
profitable trades will be not so surprising to me. They will be normal!
I am going to find some people to practice TTP with until I get it down
much better. It felt good to move towards feelings I wanted to move away
from. It felt good to get past them. I don't know if that makes any sense to
people reading this.
Lastly, I just want to say that it was really awesome to meet you and the
other Tribe members in person. What great role models you all are for me. I
hope we can meet again and again.
Thu, 30 Oct 2003
Pride is my weakness. I fear humiliation, rejection, shame. I identify
many periods of my life from age 9 to 33 that have been orchestrated solely
for the purpose of feeling shame.
My response has
always been the same: avoidance and denial. To just be humble about who I am
has never been an option. This drama controls much of my life.
It affects my
social and professional life, my relationships and my sense of self worth.
The drama extends itself into my trading and sets me up for loss. I have
trouble locating the feeling or feelings that will allow me to unravel the
Only one other person I know is remotely interested in giving TTP a
chance. How do I entice others to the TTP experience?
I hope all went well in Reno. Judging from the feedback on FAQ some
attendees have been transformed. Congratulations!
to entice others into TTP might be part of the setup for more rejection
might notice you don't have to sell TTP or entice people into it. All
you have to do is be a good receiver and all kinds of people show up.
might take your feelings about wanting to entice others into TTP, into TTP
to Catch a Rabbit:
still and make a noise
to Practice TTP:
still and make a noise
a good receiver.
Wed, 29 Oct 2003
There is not a community listed on your web site near me. I would be
interested to find out if there are other traders in my area with a desire
to be involved in a Trading Tribe community.
I live in
Dunstable, Massachusetts, about an hour north of Boston on the New Hampshire
border by Nashau, New Hampshire. I have been trading futures since 1994 or
95, stocks since 1977.
I occasionally go
to a MTA meeting in Boston, but mostly stock investors there. Let me know
whatever you can and even if there are not interested parties in my area
please keep my name and info on file.
are now on the
List from 1744
Tax Assessment for Dunstable
General Town Meeting:
Wed, 29 Oct 2003
Hi Ed !
Took a few days of resting, as the Workshop was like a new birth. I feel
like a different person.
Applying the technology you taught caused these changes. Since then, my
trading account equity curve is up more than any other time in memory. There
is plenty of change in other parts of life too. Some major moves toward my
Not just me. Another attendee called this morning to say he's already
achieved the goal he set during the Workshop, as he experienced an AHA that
the only thing between himself and the goal was dissolved during the
Tue, 28 Oct 2003
Thank you for your gentle answer to my FAQ on risk
management. I warmly appreciate your comments.
I trust that the TT went well in Reno and I hope everyone enjoyed it.
With kindest regards,
Tue, 28 Oct
How would you define the words on your front page stating that "Mastery
includes Right livelihood"?
"right livelihood"? A 3% of the amount of explanation in
"Mastery includes The Trading Tribe Process" would be appreciated
The Trading Tribe, Right Livelihood means commitment to a course of action
that you and your Tribe refine with TTP. It also means finding a way to stay
Tue, 28 Oct 2003
It's Tuesday morning, and I find myself smiling and sometimes laughing out
loud when I think of this past weekend.
after the workshop on Sunday morning, when I drove back to the Bay Area, I
had the windows down, the sunroof open, I was breathing in the wonderful
fresh mountain air, I felt the warm sun on my face, and I visualized my
I felt tingles on
the back of my neck and shoulders, the hair on my neck stood up, I got goose
bumps, the tingles moved to the top of my head and then passed up and out,
as if flowing right out of the sunroof. (I bet the car in back of me could
see the pixy dust flying!).
I felt such
joy, such happiness, my heart was (IS) full of love, I thought of my
beautiful wife, my magical little boy, my eyes welled up, and the tears ran
down my face.
Crying is a
wonderful emotion; I love celebrating my feelings. I AM living my dream,
right now, every moment! I feel it, my dream is alive, I actually see it!
It's what I want, it's what I've always wanted.
Ed, You're an angel.
Thank you for giving me the tools that will help me realize my full
potential as a father, a husband, a trader, and as a human being.
Tue, 28 Oct 2003
The Market will
fool you at least twice!!
Dear Ed and Fellow Traders,
I want to share with you my latest trading experiences. After 4 years of
relatively insignificant ups and downs I finally decided to trade
After 2 years of
relative insignificant profits from systematic trading (I trade only one
futures market; low capital and no other markets available trading from the
country I live in due to regulations) I noticed that I experienced feelings
of depression and marasm.
But I waited and
waited because I knew that this would eventually change, though I never knew
when. Well, guess what? After another year it did. While constantly
observing the market I noticed it slowly changing. I got a buy signal and
found that it was strangely hard to actually put the trade on. I also
noticed that my fellow traders (systematic) wouldn't do it at all giving me
at least several excuses. I JUST KNEW IT WAS a great opportunity and that
made me glad.
SOOO long... This is when my thinking changed and my life, THE NOW or
whatever also changed. I started having lots of fun with my surrounding,
smiled every 3 seconds, generally I was the happiest guy around. Got two job
offers after an interview. Man, I even fell in love with a woman I felt like
instantly marrying. In the meantime, I risked almost everything I had, just
about as much as my guts could take (I know, I know ... I was scared of my
risk level and the volatility awaiting, really).
Call it luck or
intuition but I was right then and eventually made around 700% in 2.5
months. I also knew the market would start an obvious correction so I got
prepared for it. At least that's what I thought I did. What happened was
exactly the opposite, I lost control over my "rules and emotions".
After a few days
of aggressive slumps I figured it was time for the correction to be over (I
was right lately, wasn't I?). So, I added even more contracts. That's when I
almost began day trading, you can imagine what happened next. Although I
like to think that my objective trading knowledge is very good, I hate to
say that I made all the mistakes of the average sucker.
What's worse, I
made them consciously; from risking so much in the first place, to blindly
hoping to recoup. I knew I was doing wrong I just couldn't help myself and
stop. After another 2 months I ended up loosing around 80% of the profit,
left with a 130% in plus. Not bad, huh? Yes, quite bad. Forget the money.
Image the joy and elation I felt watching my dreams come true, something I
waited for so long and then the disappointment and regret right afterwards,
loosing the feeling (hmmm, heard this before?).
Right now I'm
healing my wounds with the help of a therapist. This is serious, since the
last thing I would consider with my rather arrogant attitude is to visit a
shrink. But that had to change too, I guess. Live and grow and learn from
your mistakes. This is NOT always cool.
PS. Nevertheless, my girl still loves me ...
might consider joining a Tribe in your area ... or starting one.
Fred and CM communicate
tends to dissolve.
Tue, 28 Oct 2003
from a Chat
To date, [the Workshop] was the best thing that has happened to me in my
life. I lead the Trading Tribe here in [xxx], and participating in an
intentional community definitely helped me to get even more out of the
Ed Seykota and Charles Faulkner were incredibly supportive, and they along
the other attendees helped me to resolve the issues that were standing
me and what I wanted (and that is to get funding for and start my hedge
Ed over-delivered on my expectations, and he was very sincere in his
I do not say much about it, because I want to respect the privacy of the
other attendees and I want to adhere to disclosure principles.
Other people might have different experiences, so you might want to
experience TTP for yourself and see if a workshop like this is good for you.
Drama of Funding
Mon, 27 Oct 2003
TTP Workshop -
The TTP Workshop I experienced this past weekend reverberates within me
as one of a few profound experiences in my life both as a trader and human
Ed and Charles kindly offer only the "red pill" which I chose to
accept and take. :)
Experiencing my commitment,
take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake up in your bed and you
believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in
Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes ... Remember, all I
am offering is the truth. Nothing more. -- Morpheus
does this all mean?
means to buckle up your seat belt, Dorothy! Because Kansas is going bye bye.
Mon, 27 Oct 2003
Appears is Meditation
Dear Mr. Seykota,
I decide to used less leverage by trading stocks and stop my options trading
activities in near term.
Anyway I starts
reading more of your FAQ, and I realize your process of experiencing your
feeling is somewhat similar to the Mahamudra meditation system in Tibetan
Buddhism. The teacher teaching Mahamudra
encourages student to look directly at the mind nature and also the nature
experience nakedly without judging. Here is an ancient song from Niguma, the
female siddha of Shangpa Kagyu lineage:
If you don't understand that whatever appears is meditation,
What can you achieve by applying an antidote?
Perceptions are not abandoned by discarding them,
But are spontaneously freed when recognized as illusory.
might take your feelings of longing to realize ultimate Dharmata -
into TTP as a starting point.
Sun, 26 Oct 2003
These "obstacles" and irresolution present themselves like a
mysterious, invisible "force" that sometimes holds me back in my
actions, as if paralyzed. I validate this "paralysis" and
experience with a sinking feeling in the stomach, some contractions/tensions
across several parts of the body, sometimes only on the left side. Then they
resolve into a slight burning feeling the stomach, until dissipation. At
this point I am aware it's guilt about success.
I proceed to experience with this "negative" bias towards
feelings: I am aware there is a fundamental flaw in the way I am addressing
entry points for the TTP. There is an element of causality in that I
associate a given feeling with a bad effect of some wrong-doing or mistake.
Then I bring it to the TTP to discover the "cause" of the
"problem". I feel I may enhance the e-TTP experience here by just
following the flow of feelings and validating them in whatever form or way
they present themselves, rather than looking for a cause or asking questions
about their origin, which is a fundamental flaw.
acknowledge your intention to execute TTP by email - and the progress you
difference between e-TTP and TTP is like the difference between sex
manual and sex.
is a Time and Place