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from Ed in Red)
Wed, 16 Mar 2005
Ed says: TTP and drugs are different, even exclusive
Exclusive or perhaps identical?
Whether by TTP or by SSRI, if Livermore had access to either and resolved
that pivotal moment in the Sherry Netherlands cloak room into a simple ďAha!Ē
and walked out; it seems to me a better thing.
Ed Says: Without these cycles, everything stops, and
I see that with or without these cycles everything stops and dies-
eventually. And in doing so begins a different cycle?
I personally accept cycles as what is. Doctors, generally speaking however,
are as varied a bunch as traders. I do draw a distinction between a
physiologic cycle and a patho-physiologic cycle in that it proves useful in
medicine and in trading.
Thanks Ed. As Iíve told you before, I learn something every time I talk to
looks like some scientific support for Breathwork, meditation and maybe even
Wed, 16 Mar 2005
Words do not even begin to do justice for what TTP continues to give me and
my family. I humbly summit a huge THANK YOU.
P.S. I give full consent to use my name with this testimonial in any
material that you wish.
does not reveal the identities of contributors.
Wed, 16 Mar 2005
Good Afternoon Mr. Seykota,
I am the leader of an investment club in South Florida called the
Cornerstone Investor Network. We are a volunteer
organization with no charges for meetings or membership. We have 75 members
I would like to know if you would have an interest in speaking to the club?
Perhaps it can evolve into a trading tribe in [City] ...
perhaps you can promote your paid workshops.
The format for the presentations would be to your schedule. We have meetings
once a month and depending on the speaker they are held in the evening
during the week for two hours or on the weekends if more time is needed.
All I ask is for
you to share some educational material and a soft pitch about your workshops
I look forward to your reply.
you for thinking of me.
a little busy these days, however, with the Book coming out and the Workshop
coming up, and all.
you want educational material and a soft pitch, you might consider referring
your members to this site.
you own the pitching machine,
can get exactly the pitch you like.
Wed, 16 Mar 2005
or Dollar Bottom?
The attached NEWSWEEK cover story "The Incredible Shrinking
Dollar", coupled with the cover story article titled "Bottom
Dollar" suggests the Dollar may be near its lows.
MSNBC - Bottom Dollar
Wed, 16 Mar 2005
... is it right
for a novice
I came across your site today because I started reading Trend Following (the
book) two ways ago.
I am a novice trader. Been trading since October based on techniques taught
by [another website].
I have not been
successful. Trend Following makes sense to me intellectually and I want to
learn it. Your May workshop in Reno sounds excellent, but I am wondering if
its too early in my trading journey too attend it.
I get the feeling
that I would be more likely to get aha moments if I had more experience. So
it boils down to this:
* do you think it would make sense for me, a trader of 6 months
experience, with 0 months of practical trend following experience , to
attend this workshop?
Thanks very much Ed.
don't know what makes sense to you.
Tue, 15 Mar 2005
is Trending Up
The tone of your FAQ responses is increasingly arrogant when compared with
your responses from a year ago. You may consider taking that arrogance as an
entry point in your next tribe meeting.
As most trend following systems are in new equity highs, your arrogance may
be related to your trading system recent results.
Please do not destroy what used to be a wonderful psychological help site
I hope you can comment on your next tribe meeting on this issue at your
website, as I seem to also become arrogant when my results are good.
you might help me identify your concern (1) defining arrogance and (2)
providing an example.
this point, you seem to be the one with a feeling about it.
TTP the person with the feeling, concern or upset has something to work
TTP, if someone does not present an issue, we do not judge him and / or tell
him he needs help.
form of arrogance
to try and fix someone else.
Tue, 15 Mar 2005
I would like to receive information to participate in the workshop in May
- See Workshop Link, above.
Date: Tue, 15 Mar
I have been
seeking approval from others my entire life, and used the trading business
as an outlet. Fred is sick of approval and it makes me nauseas now.
During the last year: I wrote an article for a well known industry magazine
so that people could tell me how great of a trader I was, I opened (and
several weeks ago closed) a commodity brokerage, I put on commodity trades
that make (as well as lose) money for clients so that people would be in awe
of my trading abilities. I no longer care about any of this stuff.
Trading is so simple that it is not even interesting anymore to discuss
it with others. Some trades make money, some trades lose money, winners are
bigger then losers, so what who cares what is the big deal?
This is a big step for me in life. I am content with just trading my own
account and never telling a soul about any of the results, or trying to
prove to the world what a trading genius I am by making people money above
and beyond the commissions I would charge.
I feel this is wrong, and I hate the brokerage side of the futures industry.
I charged people less then the going rate for commissions. I feel guilty for
even talking to people trying to sell them the finer points of opening an
account with my firm. People tell me I am too nice and don't have the guts
for this business.
My gut says the
same thing. I feel responsible should anything go wrong and a client ever
lose money, so I try and have as few brokerage accounts as possible (which
is why I only traded calendar spreads with clients to help nullify the
leverage in futures and still maintain a very positive risk to reward
ratio). Well it was an interesting drama to say the least ... I wish Fred
hadn't cashed in my life savings for this drama though, but maybe I needed
to cash it in to feel alive so I can struggle again. struggling = feeling
I call my commodity brokerage a failure, and it is the first thing I have
ever truly failed at in my life and I feel good about it. I am truly a
failure now, which is apparently what I wanted to experience all along. I
get to tell people I have a failed business. I am more humble and feel like
I have limits to my abilities. I never felt this way before. I feel more
content in life now, and at 30 years of age would like to start a family and
focus on other things besides a career and making money which doesn't really
I am presently job searching for a full time corporate job, and in the
meantime working 2 part time jobs at different factories, one of them being
physical labor by loading boxes in semi trailers 5 days a week at a well
known courier. I am more educated then anyone in the plant and have the
lowest unskilled job possible.
I get to apply for entry level jobs and people get to tell me I am
overqualified with a published article, an MBA, and the president of a
failed brokerage firm.
Maybe I will get to load boxes forever which is really not all that bad and
kind of satisfying. Maybe it is what I want time will tell. Now I remember
seeing on TV several years ago some corporate bigwig who left his high
paying job to go work on a catfish farm somewhere raising catfish, which he
found more rewarding. I remember admiring him for it.
I remember a few years ago I always wondered what it would be like to
work in a factory like my father and also stepfather.
Now I get to work
at 2 factories part time while I look for full time employment, something
that 6 months ago I never got to experience ... If I load boxes in
semi-trailers for 4 more years they will give me my own truck to drive and
pay me 40-50K, where I can deliver boxes to people in the residential areas
on a route.
I feel alive by having to struggle at the moment to make ends meet. I no
longer feel dead inside by working at a desk or sitting in a corporate
cubicle rotting away... I feel youthful, healthy, and strong like I did
I no longer have to try and impress my family since they consider me a
failure now, or at least I feel they judge me in that way.
My whole life they
never gave me any approval for the things I worked hard to accomplish. I
feel ashamed and regret some of the choices I have made over the last couple
years. All kinds of new feelings I have never felt before such as regret.
But regret has a way of humbling a person I guess ... Up until the last year
I had never felt regret or ashamed for anything I did in my entire life.
Now if Fred could set up some dramas with the feelingsof love and trust
together, I think it would be very beneficial. Maybe I wouldn't be alone any
Thanks again Ed. Someone truly wise once said everyone gets what they want.
way to deal with feelings of not being able to please is to "fail on
purpose" so you don't have to meet expectations.
way it to experience your feelings and convert them from adversaries to
is hard work and almost impossible to accomplish on your own.
Tribe can provide and maintain a field of acknowledgment and validation in
which you can experience your k-nots.
a form of succeeding
falling short of expectations.
Mon, 14 Mar 2005
My intentions were to be first on the list to register.
happened was my husband (63 years old) was admitted to the hospital and
ended up having open heart bypass surgery.
Waited a couple of
weeks to make sure he was doing fine and I could fulfill my commitment to
I would like to attend the May seminar and will be mailing you a check with
the information sheet today.
Intentions = Results, we have that your real intention is to comfort you
husband during surgery and to possibly attend a Workshop thereafter.
priorities seem about right to me.
Mon, 14 Mar 2005
I have so much that I want to say and ask and I don't know how to start. ...
I guess I'll start with gratitude. I am very grateful to you for sharing
your wisdom with the world. You have created a 'space' (for lack of a better
word) for people to learn and grow. Thank you for that.
I am grateful for
the members of my tribe in [City] who are unfailingly supportive and
fearless in their quest to get to their AHA's.
About the k-nots, intentions=results, AHA's, Fred, hot seats, I am having
trouble getting to an AHA, I am not experiencing my k-nots, my results
certainly do not equal any intention that I am aware of, and my Fred seems
very elusive and uncommunicative.
I want to say that "I just don't get it" but I know you'll tell
me to take those feelings into a hot seat. But to be honest with you I don't
know what that means.
I have had 1
hot seat experience and it was an emotional roller coaster. I experienced
anger, resentment, heat, embarrassment, cold, loneliness and sadness in that
order. I don't think that I got to an AHA.
I am committed to establishing a relationship with Fred but she seems so
beyond my reach. I know that she is producing the results in my life that I
find so undesirable but I don't know how to reason with her. I believe
that I'm on the right track and I will continue but do you have any
suggestions for what else I can do to invite Fred's wisdom into my CM?
Thanks again for all you've shared.
Fred is incidental to the process.
to understand Fred can hinder the process - unless you are willing to
experience the wanting.
your wanting to understand is in a k-not, it produces a not-knowing drama as
seem on the right track with your emotional roller coaster work.
time you are on a roller coaster, during the first descent, you might try
screaming at the top of your lungs.
fear in this way, makes it disappear.
approach also works with other feelings.
the TTP model, Fred doesn't share wisdom with CM. Fred shares feelings
with CM. CM experiences them. CM helps re-program Fred.
This collaborative process generates wisdom.
Exports Feelings to CM
CM provides Guidance
collaboration generates wisdom.
Mon, 14 Mar 2005
I was visiting the site and was wondering what the difference in Price is
about. The Reviewer Price vs. the Standard Price?
I have been trading for 1-1/2 years with nothing but losses and not trading
plan that I have found that is successful.
I have a wife with
MS in a wheelchair and need to stay close to home, but if I don't figure
this out I will be forced back to work soon and I would rather learn from
I am interested please let me know.
reviewer is a graduate of a previous Workshop.
Workshop requires you to be away from home for a few days.
Sun, 13 Mar 2005
Regarding May Workshop
Couple of questions regarding the upcoming workshop:
1. What is included in the fee? Workshop only? Workshop + meals? Workshop +
meals + room?
2. I have no trading experience, although I am familiar with some aspects of
money management - worked as independent software consultant for two money
management firms on operations software, one of which I started with a
partner who did the actual managing [I also wrote the code which implemented
his buy/sell signals and maintained the database].
I've decided to develop a trading system with the aim of trading full time.
This is something I have wanted to do since the mid 70's, but have not
pursued - other than co-founding the investment business in the mid 80's
with a friend. [He has continued to run the business as a money management
I don't see constructing a trading system as particularly difficult - I have
some facility with computers and system modeling - given today's hardware
and the ready availability of data. Issues of execution and psychology are
Given these meager details, do you think your workshop would be worth the
investment at this time or at some later point?
3. I would pre-order your book if I could find out how to do it from your
web site - but it escapes me.
See the Workshop page for details.
I do not know how to value the Workshop from your point of view, over a
range of times.
The order page for the book is due to appear March 31.
Sun, 13 Mar 2005
You have overlooked Noether's Theorem on conservation laws.
Put simply, it states that the ONLY INDEPENDENTLY CONSERVED quantities in a
classical dymanical system are those conjugate generalized momenta that
correspond to generalized coordinates which have the property that the
Lagrangian of the system does not depend upon them. All other constants of
motion are necessarily functions of these.
The time coordinate had the conjugate momentum which is the energy. If the
system does not depend explicitly upon time, then energy is conserved.
Each of the three components of linear position has a corresponding momentum
that is conserved provided that the the system does not depend explicitly on
the associated position.
Each of the three components of rotation has a corresponding angular
momentum which is conserved if and only if the system does not depend
explicitly upon its rotation coordinate.
Furthermore, these three, energy, linear momentum, angular momentum are the
ONLY independent constants of motion for a classical system. (Actually,
there are seven, 1 energy, 3 linear momenta, 3 angular momenta.)
An obvious counterexample that shows that radial momentum is NOT conserved
is provided by the explosion of a bomb. The parts start out at rest, then
they all start moving out radially.
Sorry, you are batting exactly ZERO on this issue.
1915, David Hilbert asks Emmy Noether to help him with some math.
winds up clarifying some conservation principles for Einstein's theory of
my Radial Momentum work, the velocities are much less than C, the speed of
light, so Newton works just fine, thanks.
of momentum does not indicate that momentum cannot change. A body tends to
conserve momentum until a force acts upon it.
bomb exerts a force on the particles, scattering them radially, establishing
Radial Momentum continues to carry the particles away from each other,
resulting in lower particle density, hence less pressure.
your score keeping in which I am batting zero, you might be so kind as to
tell me what game you think we are playing.
it's a guessing game, then I guess you are angry about something.
Sun, 13 Mar 2005
I want to thank you again for all the insight you gave me during our private
consulting and the last workshop. I will never forget the knife and the
aircraft analogies you showed when we had diner together!
My trading has improve tremendously by using trend following technique
(based on weekly charts) and by being able to follow my system applied to
that time frame with proper risk management (0.5%) per trade and some
diversification. (Forex Index mini future oil mini future) because of
psychological support from your FAQ and our little Tribe of 4.
I don't trade mini
gold because there are no stops available!
I received a 65k
account from a client with 45K at risk and 20K for margin. We agree on 300k
virtual portfolio. The 45k are 15% risk for drawdown and I place 1500$
(0.5%) risk stop par trade.
I am planning to announce a Workshop schedule, a Workshop Trainer
Certification Program, a Trader Certification Program and a Book, all in
Please I have two questions for today FAQ?
A) Can you please give me some insight on my money management for the
B) Can you please tell me (develop) a bit what is required to be eligible
for the Trading certification program?
Kindest regards to you and yours.
Thank you again for the FAQ and for sharing your great insight with us.
am planning to announce a Certification Program later this month.
does not recommend specific system parameters. See Ground Rules.
Sat, 12 Mar 2005
Is your book still targeted for the end of March, and how can I order it?
order form is due to appear March 31.
Sat, 12 Mar 2005
I have read several books on trend following. I have placed money with trend
followers and have done well. I believe in it. There is a question that has
bothered my thinking lately.
What keeps coming
up in my mind is hedge funds or managed futures and the amount of money that
is coming into these.
hedge/managed futures funds, managers, trend following traders and trillions
of money coming in, the less the trends will run or fall for a given period
of time and the less trends there will be available to trade.
What do you say? I
am very curious.
markets trend sometimes and sometimes they don't.
followers don't try to predict these phases.
seem to want some sort of trend-following method with an extra fundamental
Gizmo to make it work better.
black and white as they seem.
Fri, 11 Mar 2005
I have determined that my personality is suited for day trading.
Do you think I have a better chance of changing my personality for
mechanical trend following systems or creating a successful day-trading
don't know of a day-trading system that succeeds for very long.
Chances of Changing
you join a Tribe.
Fri, 11 Mar 2005
I would like to know when will happen the TT Workshop.
happens in the now.
Workshop link, above for more details.
Fri, 11 Mar 2005
I Did It!
Good morning Ed,
I have fulfilled my April 2005 ďIncline Village Breath Work WeekendĒ
commitment to the Tribe and to myself.
Also, see the 2005 Proclamation commitment below at:
My 2005 Proclamation
Here is my 2005 Proclamation.
I am committed to trading my tested mechanical system with $100,000.00 in
equity by April 2005, and sharing my monthly account statements with [Name].
I am providing my account statements listing my positions and total equity
to him for a period of 5 months.
My intention is trade the North American Futures market and to follow all
signals generated by my computerized system unconditionally.
I am a Futures Trader.
On March 10-2005 I made the last arrangements to setup my Futures Trading
I received a signal on March 9-2005 to go Long Oats for 3 contracts.
So I purchased the May-2005 Oats yesterday (March 10-2005)
I am following my system without question. (Signals/Money Management/Risk
I have reached a milestone in my trading. Nothing could feel better right
now. The feeling of accomplishment is overwhelming. I feel like I am
floating and I am enjoying this feeling!!! Is this what right livelihood
The ongoing encouragement and commitment to support me from my home town
Tribe has been fundamental in my achieving this milestone and I thank you
all for this.
I wish to thank you Ed, for empowering me, and letting me find my own way.
I thank you all for your support.
Thu, 10 Mar 2005
to No Respect
see: Feb 11 No
Ed Says: "You might consider taking your feelings
about "needing a little help" to a
Tribe meeting as an entry point."
I don't need group therapy because I don't need to change anything about
myself. I applaud all of my strengths and weaknesses because they make me
what I am.
Commodity Corps helped an awful lot of people, including yourself, to become
trend followers. The Turtle course helped even more people. I received no
help. I bought a course and I set to work.
Ed Says: "None of the properties you cite as
"reasons" indicate a profitable system or an ability to stick to
The system is being offered for sale. It is up to the purchaser to stick to
I am offering for sale the supreme efforts of an honest and hardworking man,
who is trying to make his own way through life.
Is that a crime
does not endorse people or commercial products. See Ground Rules.
do not see any evidence that your system produces profits.
suppose there is no crime in selling it, particularly if you make full
disclosure about it's limitations, and yours.
example, in your previous post, you make a promise to never write me again,
that you break in this post.
behaviour is consistent with k-nots about anger and humiliation.
way to get you to consider attending a Tribe meeting might be to forbid you
Seat Under the Tree
the Apple Exchange
you a license
Thu, 10 Mar 2005
Can you clarify the difference between a happy judge and a grumpy judge? Can
you give an example to help me understand the concept of judges?
Thank you for all you give.
happy Judge is one you are willing to experience.
not in the Judge
happy is in your view
Wed, 9 Mar 2005
I trust you and your family are well. I had a new addition to my family
three weeks ago ... 7lb 3ozs ... Result =intention!
More good news, the [City] trading tribe had its first meeting last week.
There are two members and we intend on meeting every two weeks. The first
meeting was very productive for both of us.
Here is my testimonial, rather late but hopefully of some use
I first met Ed two years ago and soon realized he had something that I
wanted --- and it was not money! He understood what he and his life were all
two TTP seminars I have made some progress towards this goal too. TTP is
a simple concept to understand but requires serious effort to adopt into
one's daily experience. The reward for me has been a greater awareness
of "the now" and satisfaction with my life. I experience my
feelings which gives me clarity in my decision making. My dramas are very
short lived since I am aware of myself denying a feeling. I understand
that these knots can only be resolved with the help of others in a tribe
setting and have initiated a local tribe.
Through TTP I have seen my world around me change. TTP has been a
crucial tool to help me be a more patient parent, husband and son. By being
in the now and receiving my children's emotions I have experienced
unconditional love, forgiveness, being open-minded and pure pleasure.
My life is simpler
since I spend less time trying to figure it all out instead I just go with
the flow and try to stay in the now. I am no longer waiting to get to any
destination but experiencing the journey.
Thank you Ed for all your support and effort. You are making a big
Tue, 8 Mar 2005
For me a recent AHA - the simple things are all that I need.
A simple breakout will get me involved in a market as well as Bollinger,
Williams, CANSLIM, Slim Jim, yodels, ring dings and Capín Crunch.
If a trend occurs
and I maintain my position, as the Old Turkey would, and I exit when the
trend breaks down, then I will participate in the trend. I donít care why.
When I get
involved and a trend does not occur I may lose money. Thatís pretty
simple. Get in / get out. Sometimes a dollar gained sometimes a dollar lost.
Canít control the behavior of the market, so stop trying.
Canít predict a future that doesnít exist, stop trying.
Elliot, kondratiev the delphic oracle, nostrodamus, hammers, dojis, 3 wise
men, r2d2, the tin man, santa claus, cup and handle, flag, idiot
lines, wedge, roast beef and cheese, they all work yet none of them work,
though, I like the roast beef and cheese wedge with mayo and tomato, Iíll
have that for lunch, instead of staring at charts and patterns and crystal
balls all day.
Seems to me, the underlying constant behind any successful trader is mental
and fiscal risk management.
I have a bit of
control over that.
margin, rollover, contract specs. Risk a specific percent of total equity
per position, base position size on the dollar value of risk over dollar
value of current range, trade non-correlated markets. Thatís where Iíll
concentrate my effort. Explain my system to my ďno numbers pleaseĒ wife,
then to my kindergarten and nursery school children, start with a small
amount of capital, experience drawdowns feel them in my gut, behind
my eyes, like Iím buried in mud and my muscles are useless.
Feel some trends, my
stomach is in knots, I wanna take it off the table, itís painful to
watch it day after day, thereís a divergent bar should I take my profit,
the volume is not supporting this move, the cci came out lower than
expected, the futures are going haywire, my head is spinning, quick go to
the FAQ page, settle down, check the turtletrader site, pick up
Reminiscences Ö, Old Dickson, walk away, ashtanga asana, ride the mountain
bike, stick with the system Ö now find a local Tribe and take it there.
Iím just getting started and it feels great to be on this journey, see ya
on the trails.
Tue, 8 Mar 2005
Your site has a great traffic rank at Amazon's Alexa.com:
Congratulations on the community you have established.
you for the head's up.
the Internet Race
is solidly ...
in the middle.
Mon, 07 Mar 2005
Dear Mr. Seykota,
While reading the last FAQ I noticed on the Dec. 10 e-mail that you are
working with hypnosis.
My question is: Is
the trance during a hot seat experience and hypnosis the same, and can
there also be an aha moment when the person comes out of hypnosis.
only thing that stays the same is that things do not stay the same ... at
least, not for very long, unless they do.
hours we're on this, gentlemen.
I fall asleep now,
will be from boredom.
You can induce
trance through boredom. Also through confusion. Also by intention.
Sun, 6 Mar 2005
latest tribe meeting
Hi ... Ed.
Our latest [City] tribe meeting leads to several ahas for me and a better
understanding of how the trading tribe group process works.
Our first hot seat shows up late, but with the most live issues, arising
from some difficult people and difficult situations at work. He works
through a number of forms related to anger, which I perceive as extremely
quiet and inwardly-directed. The tribe leader asks him about any judges
keeping this anger down. I sense that these judges must be very strong
indeed, as I can barely detect the quiet anger coming out from underneath.
While this is going on, the cramps in my stomach grow stronger. I
take the hot seat next, as my issues are now coming to life. In retrospect,
after the meeting, I see that the stomach cramps are part of the judges I
use to keep down a seething rage and avoid lashing out at everyone around
On the hot seat, I
move very quickly past the stomach cramp form and into a tightness in the
chest that hit me with excruciating pain a couple of days after our last
tribe meeting. I had never experienced this particular pain before, and
its intensity disturbed me.
On this hot seat,
the tightness in my chest resolved into an extremely strong form of flailing
my arms around in circles and laughing hysterically. Laughter is one of my
common defenses against difficult people with ridiculously high expectations
of what needs to be done, which I now see is related to the first tribe
On the hot seat, I
then move through numerous forms related to anger and erupting rage. These
forms grow very loud and vigorous, shaking hands and arms, stomping feet,
smashing the chair against the floor, growling, and so forth. I appreciate
the tribe leader's encouragement in expressing these forms, as I feel rather
ridiculous at the display, but if feels good to get it out.
process reveals a relationship between the hysterical laughter and erupting
rage forms; at the tribe leader's request I put them together and come up
with a chillingly powerful diabolical laugh like something a villain
would perform in a movie.
I work through the
various forms again, and they resolve themselves with me on the floor, under
the chair, using my left hand to pound out various rhythms related to the
drumming from the start of the meeting. The hot seat experience ends with my
back on the floor and feet up on top of the chair, feeling very much calmer
and more peaceful.
As we check out from my hot seat, the first tribe member with the anger
issues points out that I was consistently putting more energy into my left
hand than my right hand as I went through the various forms.
that the left side represented where we take things in, whereas the right
side is where we send things out.
I miss the
reference for this, but find that it very accurately describes my situation.
I ponder that comment for a couple of days, and reach the aha that I am
taking things in from people all around me and have very little outlet. The
list of people dumping work and emotional strain on me includes my clients,
my supervisors, my co-workers, the people working for me who keep pushing
their work back up on me, my daughter, my parents, and sometimes my wife,
although that relationship continues to improve the fastest as the TTP
The third tribe member then takes the hot seat. He has been working through
procrastination issues the past few meetings, making more progress each
time. He moves through various familiar forms of frustration and delay, and
then he gets to a strong display of determination and, eventually, a form
that represents getting things started. The tribe leader then guides him
through various possibilities that might follow getting started, and the hot
seat is okay with all of the various possible outcomes. I am happy to see
him making progress on these issues, and I sense that he is now ready to
really get going.
Today, as I reflect on all of this, I am beginning to channel the intensity
of my seething anger into determination and getting started. What I really
want to do right now is work on my trading system, and I've not allowed
myself any time to work on it because of the extreme pressures at work and
at home. But I clearly need this outlet. In the long run, trading will
support me in a more balanced lifestyle that fits with what I want to do and
enables more time with family and friends. I can not and will not let
short-term pressures at work and at home prevent me from moving toward my
long-term goal of trading for a living.
So, today, I'm spending time restructuring tasks for people who are working
for me, and putting the work back onto their plates in a way that they can
do it quickly and efficiently instead of dumping it back on me. This should
keep the flow moving at work, instead of backing up onto me. In my family
life, I have a concrete plan for dealing with some very longstanding issues
that have been building up for decades and will reach some substantial
resolution two weeks from now as I skip the next tribe meeting to fly to my
hometown and finally deal with these issues now.
In the meantime, I
commit to making space in my life to work a little bit on trading each day,
to keep the momentum going and provide a necessary outlet, as I channel this
pent-up anger through determination into getting started.
Thanks to you, Ed, for creating this process; and thanks to [local Tribe
leader] for being a great tribe leader and helping us all surface and deal
with our issues. As the weeks go by, I see more and more how it helps to
work together as a group, and that one tribe member's problems often hold
the seeds of another tribe member's solutions.
TTP We Lend a Hand
by acknowledging others' forms,
so much by explaining things.
Sun, 6 Mar 2005
Trading is not a Career;
it is a Passion
I have been fortunate to have worked at [Bank] for the majority of my
professional career. I have held numerous positions in the ...
group, focusing on funding, interest rate risk management and portfolio
management/trading. I have had the opportunity to develop extensive
knowledge of the Capital Markets, I have been able to transact and manage
positions in the financial markets but most importantly I have devoted a
large part of my working day to studying the movements of the markets and researching
the factors that influence market movements with the intention of
trading the markets for a living.
I am competitive, independent and continually striving to develop all
aspects of my personal and professional skills. I have reached a point in my
life where I wish to take the great leap forward and trade exclusively. I
seek a dynamic environment that will allow me to trade fixed income,
currencies, equities and commodities. I seek a challenging, rewarding and
exciting environment with people who are dedicated to learning and profiting
from their passion for the markets. I am extremely confident of my abilities
and hope you may be able to forward my resume to a small/medium macro
hedge fund that is expanding and seeking additional traders.
This letter and attached resume can only provide minimal insight into the
person I am and the desire I have to become successful trader. I would
appreciate any assistance or advice you may offer.
like "to research the factors that influence market movements."
appears you are a fundamentalist.
know a lot of Trend-Traders who depend on fundamentalists to take the other
side of trades, especially when they break to new highs and lows.
to figure out ways
Sat, 5 Mar 2005
Dear Ed, I'd like to order the new book. Thank you. Thanks for all the help.
of the book and a way to order it are due to appear March 31.
Fri, 04 Mar 2005
I feel anticipation while waiting for my Tribe to be posted on the tribe
listing for your Tribe appears now.
suppose you can continue with your anticipation, by wondering if the listing
the non-existing future.
having a better past.
Fri, 04 Mar 2005
Volume, # of Trades
The "past" is a memory, the "future" does not exist. OK.
The most common price representations used now plot price against time.
Now for the question:
Do constant-volume, constant-tick, momentum bars, and other
time-independent chart representations provide a more accurate
representation of actual price action ?
time you look at a historical price chart, the time is exactly now.
framing (format of the chart) has little to do with the accuracy of the
accuracy of a chart has to do with the skill and dedication of the scribe
who prepares the chart.
de-scribe a market accurately.
Fri, 4 Mar 2005
A Sure Buyer
are you planning to receive pre-orders for the new book and sell it directly
? Please, put my name on the list !
have no waiting list. I am planning to post an order page on March 31.
Fri, 4 Mar 2005
Charts Link is
Your link for charts is not working.
Beta Test is complete. I am planning to bring up a chart service about
Thu, 3 Mar 2005
I have one problem in my method which is that I donít know when exactly to
until you figure it out, you might be very careful about getting in.
getting out of markets
Thu, 3 Mar 2005
Only the Price
I have a question about trend following time based breakout entry method and
Measuring previous price volatility to manage risk involves analyzing
previous price moves which are predictive and prediction is wrong, isnít
it wrong to adjust position sizing according to past data?
I use a price based entry method to buy and sell on fixed intervals:
- Buy at fixed intervals above low.
- Sell at fixed intervals below high.
- Change intervals if new low or high occurs to get better buy/sell starting
- Stop-loss 50% below buyers and 50% above sellers at each interval buy/sell
- I Buy and Sell at the same time regardless of hedged positions in order to
always get the best buy/sell price until a big trend develops.
- I never attempt to reduce the stop loss in order to preserve equity
because I want the price to bypass the stop-loss in order to buy at the same
interval point again (it is better to lose profit from below the interval
sell/buy point than to lose from above the interval sell/buy point because
you will be holding more positions above that point, so we prefer losing
from the smaller profits than losing from the bigger profits)
- I buy and sell regardless of hedging in order to always get the best price
when big trends happen in any direction.
By measuring the optimum profit across the buy/sell intervals against the
losses that accumulate on the way I can know how far I am from the optimum
profit; so I can decide to exit with minimum losses or maximum profits.
Am I on my way to financial ruin? You know best, please let me know what you
Attached are some examples. Please donít hesitate to contact me if you
have any questions.
systems use historical data to trigger buying and selling in the moment of
of this requires prediction.
does not judge right and wrong. See Ground Rules.
tends to appear in k-nots, and determine your real trading system.
am having some difficulty following your system description.
some feedback on its clarity, you might try explaining it to a teenager.
she understands your system,
might be simple enough
you to trade.
Wed, 2 Mar 2005
Ed Says: "You might take your issues about
wanting respect and feeling denigration to your Tribe as entry points.
Until you resolve these k-nots you are likely to continue entraining drama
that delivers these feelings as your payoff."
Did you ever consider the guy just might be looking for a little help? And
did you ever consider just helping him with no strings attached? You should
consider trying it sometime.
Carrying around a
backpack loaded with advice, k-nots, issues, drama, Fred and TT talk may not
be required or desired for everybody's hike in the woods.
does not endorse people or commercial products.
party in question has an on-going pattern of sending me examples of
ambiguous systems and then asking for help in marketing them.
I suggest a path he might try, for himself, he becomes angry.
pattern is consistent with someone with a humiliation-knot.
agree that TTP does not fit everyone's back-pack.
who show up on this site for a hike with me, generally pack TTP - to lighten
might consider taking whatever irritation you might have about my approach,
to your Tribe, as an entry point.
Some people keep humiliation in a k-not and then go to
great lengths to set up justifications to experience it.
Wed, 2 Mar 2005
I just finished [proofreading your Book]. I couldn't put it down once I
started reading. It's awesome. A great summary, a burst of creativity that
can spawn a re-tribal-ization movement.
You could create additional understanding and more emotional transmission
of TTP with a DVD or CD of the Tribe processing a form.
Tuck the CD in the
jacket of your book.
It's the How-To manual for a movement that uses TTP to transform the world
of support groups.
I'm enthused about attending the May Tribal Process.
am considering taking some motion pictures (with permission) at the May
Wed, 2 Mar 2005
Regarding trading, what do you propose to measure to determine your own
stick-to-it-iv-ness? By comparing the actual results with the paper-trade
can use simple comparisons to determine your variation from a trading plan.
can also use your own stomach - since you know in your gut when you jump
good place to look
find your real trading system.
Wed, 2 Mar 2005
I trust this finds you well.
I write to report on the proceedings of the [City] Tribe meeting ... all 3
members are present. We check in as usual, and describe our feelings in that
moment of now.
I take the Hot Seat at today's meeting. I spend a few minutes describing my
issue to the Tribe members.
My issue is: I have 2 kids - 16 and 14 years old, students in the 12th Grade
and 10th Grade respectively ... My wife and I have - for many years -
desired to make available to them the option of going to college in the U.S.
- an option that would cost us more money than we can presently afford. Now
that our son is coming to the end of his school career, he has himself begun
to express a desire to go to college in the U.S. Suddenly, the prospect of
having to fund his college education is staring me in the face.
I have noticed that there have been numerous instances recently, when I have
thought about how I am going to (and, more important, IF I am going to be
able to ... ) fund his college education. However, whenever these thoughts
come to mind, I experience a strong feeling of fear. I notice that I do not
give myself an opportunity to think the situation through, but instead
just blank it out of my mind, blank out the feeling of fear, and skip to
some less unpleasant thoughts.
I wish to use my opportunity on the Hot Seat to experience that feeling
of fear, and request the Tribe members to help me to experience a feeling
that I seem to be routinely suppressing.
I spend my first few minutes on the Hot Seat describing my issue to my
Receivers. During the course of my "description" of my issue, one
of the Receivers asks me how the feeling of fear feels. At that point, I
try and jump into the somatic manifestation of that feeling.
I am feeling heat in my stomach, a burning sensation in my gut. So I tell my
Receivers of the heat, the burning sensation. They help me to track that
feeling. However (and I don't tell them this yet), I also feel like I have
not finished describing my issue to them. Thoughts about my issue (at a
logical level, not a feelings level) continue to occupy my mind, and I am
finding it difficult to concentrate on the feeling of burning in the gut.
They continue to help me track my feelings for the next 20 or so minutes
(that's about how long it felt like to me), but I am torn between tracking
my feelings (heat in the stomach, tightness in my head, pain in the back of
my neck) and a nagging thought that I have not finished describing my
issue to them. So, well after starting the Process - when one of my
Receivers asks me how I feel - I tell them that I have some nagging thoughts
at the back of my mind. (I wish I had done that earlier!) They ask me to
describe those thoughts. And I do so.
And I describe the thoughts going through my mind. And then I see a vision
(my eyes are closed) of my wife - whom I love so dearly, and who is the most
beautiful person in the world to me. I tell them about the vision. And
THEN those nagging thoughts just disappear!
And then I am able to focus solely on my feelings - no more distractions,
Over the next hour or so, I go through various forms - rubbing my stomach
to ease the burning sensation, rocking my body in my chair, stretching
my arms and legs full-length, massaging my thighs, intense tightness in my
head, pain in the back of my neck, a deep pain in my eyeballs. On various
occasions, a feeling of calmness seems to be descending upon me, but my
Receivers prod me further, and the feelings begin to resurface.
Finally, after about 75 minutes on the Hot Seat, I begin to feel a more
lasting feeling of calmness and relaxation. My Receivers stop provoking me
to feel my feelings any more, and I soon open my eyes.
Though I do feel calm and relaxed, there is a slight feeling of discomfort
too. I describe my experience to my Receivers. One of tells me he thinks
that I would have gone on for much longer if he had pushed me further.
Because of the feeling of discomfort I have, I tell him that I think he is
right. That the feeling of relaxation is not complete.
Ed, when I look back at my experience since that Hot Seat session, two
things strike me:
(1) In the 2 days after my Hot Seat session, my head feels very heavy
(extremely unusual for me) and my eyeballs hurt intensely. This pain stays
with me for 2 full days, and makes me very uncomfortable. I also feel
emotionally very raw and vulnerable, and there are times when I feel like
crying (for no reason!). I also feel very sensitive to the people around me.
And there is a feeling of lethargy in me that I am enjoying.
(2) When you asked us at the November workshop in Reno what our limits to
growth are, I had listing "Not Sticking to my System" as my
biggest limit to growth. The good news - no, Great News - for me is that I
have taken every signal since returning in November, have taken every Entry,
Exit, Profit and Loss the system has given me, and have not felt the desire
to override, or second-guess my system at any time.
I am fascinated
by this transformation. I do not know "how" this has come to be.
But it has. And it feels GREAT!
God bless you, Ed.
gather you are untying some profound k-nots.
of your carry-over symptoms such as appear in your head and eyes can make
excellent entry points for your next session.
be in a k-not too.
Tue, 1 Mar 2005
Fulfilling my promise, here is a summary of what happens between my first
and second tribe meetings:
At the first meeting I work on some tension in my neck and constriction
in my throat. I identify a set of muscles in my chest that connect to
these issues. I find that my posture improves immediately. My chest expands
more, projecting greater confidence. My singing range lowers a note or two.
I snore a bit less and require a little less sleep. I experience more of the
positive nervous energy that I associate with being excited about a project.
My wife notices significant positive changes and comments on them
A headhunter contacts me out of nowhere soon after I finish reading
the FAQ pages, and I schedule an interview. I begin to acquire my largest
sales lead stream in years, with people calling me or knocking on my door
each day to offer me work.
I study all of my historical trades, attempting to measure slippage and see
where the profits go. I also chart profit by market and group (e.g.
currencies, grains, etc.). To my amazement, I find that although my results
are near breakeven overall, I make huge profits in some groups and huge
losses in other groups. Small foreign contracts cost me the most, in
particular LME metals. I also find that most of my broker execution problems
occur in these small foreign markets. Meanwhile, the larger foreign markets
like the German Bund perform as intended, providing some of the
diversification I seek.
I also see that a good chunk of my historical losses come from broken
publicly-available systems that I no longer trade.
I re-balance my portfolio, dropping the consistently unprofitable market
segments. My trading account moves up slowly and steadily, up 5% in two
weeks, with 8 up days and only 2 down days.
Again out of nowhere, an old friend contacts me and asks me to manage a
substantial amount of money for him and some of his friends. I rekindle
my interest in fund management and start making a checklist.
Thank you so much for starting and running our local tribe. I commit to
continued growth and success.
the work of the Trading Tribe
Tue, 1 Mar 2005
Dear Mr. Seykota,
Did Mr. Donchian
follow every signal in his 20-5 moving average cross-over system or did he
use specific filters or modifications?
like a lot of system traders, has a record of taking some trades and not
Tue, 1 Mar 2005
US Steel Data
I'm trying wish to obtain a data file of US Steel containing Open High Low
Close data including historical data back to 1915, preferably in either
Metastock or CSV format.
Do you know where I might be able to get hold of this?
might try the obvious places, like a data vendor and the US Steel accounting
S. Steel begins operations in 1901 under chairman Elbert H. Gary. Gary and
Morgan buy out Carnegie's steel company and combine it with Federal Steel
Company. To this nucleus they add American Steel & Wire Co., National
Tube Company, American Tin Plate Co., American Steel Hoop Co., and American
Sheet Steel Co. In its first full year of operation, U. S. Steel makes 67
percent of all the steel produced in the United States