The Trading Tribe
(c) Ed Seykota 2003-2010 - Write for permission to reprint.
Ed Seykota's FAQ
TT Workshop - Austin TX
December 3-5, 2010
Prices Good Through November 15

Reader Says

Ed Says

Sunday, October 31, 2010

Happy Haloween !


Happy Haloween !
Thank you for sharing your photos.
Sun, Oct 31, 2010

Tribe Process Benefits - In Business

Dear Ed,

I wanted to report benefits from the Tribe Process as an encouragement for what you have shared with us thru the Austin Tribe. I have been in business meetings and have utilized the Process Management techniques from our tribe meetings. For a group presentation we are preparing to give to some groups in China, I had each person present before the other team members, then asked for their feelings about what they presented (senders), I then asked the team their feelings (receivers) about the presentation, then asked the presenter for their final word (check out) on the process.

The team really liked the flow, the process management, and wanted to utilize this format for future meetings and wanted to implement the process in their own organizations.

In another situation, a bank president called me to discuss some issues with his wife, I related tribe concepts (asking about feelings, sharing your feelings, intimacy vs. causal model). I asked him how he felt about the process, he really opened up about his feelings, I then responded by telling him how I felt, and he then had the last word. He was very encouraged that this approach could make a difference in his relationship with his wife.

Thank you again for all you have shared with us!

Thank you for sharing your process.
Friday, October 29, 2010

Self-Development Course at [Name] University


Yesterday, [Name's] dean of undergraduates declines my proposal to teach a self-development course in the spring 2011 semester.

His stated grounds are (1) students would be unlikely to sign up for a class requiring willingness to feel emotions and (2) I lack enough training in therapy to handle intense outcomes students might reach in their processes.

I thank him for his consideration and ask him to suggest other ways to share the content of the proposed course with students. I wait for his reply.

I feel disappointment.
Thank you for sharing your process.

You might consider taking your feelings about <hosting a Tribe at home / teaching a course at the university> to Tribe as an entry point.

October 29, 2010

 A Rose By Any Other Name

 Dear Support Team, 

Over the last few weeks I spend considerable time thinking about my progress, both as a trader and personally, since the workshop.  I often feel frustrated with what I deem to be a lack of progress or attainment of goals.  It’s a nagging feeling of unrest.  However, as I consider where I am today compared to then, I see the reality of significant progress in the following ways: 

I no longer deviate from my trading system.  Going into the workshop, this is my primary goal, and I accomplished it.  As a result, my accounts are all up over the last six months, and I have a liberating degree of confidence in what I’m doing.  I also improve my relationships with my family and girlfriend over this period, which just seems to happen naturally.  Making money, better relationships and feeling good- not bad. 

This month, I deal with some feelings and an issue that bother me for most of my life: my name.  As a young kid, I am teased about my name.  In the first grade, after a particularly upsetting episode of being made fun of, I decide on a nickname which has stuck ever since. 

 However, after college, I find this nickname not to work well professionally, and revert back to my first name which I never like to begin with.  Over the years, I debate using my middle name, which I like a lot in fact, but I never make the change, thinking I’m “too old” to do that and for fear of what people may think. 

Recently, it occurs to me that other people generally don’t care what my name is and it’s what I feel about it that’s important.  So I’ve now changed to using my middle name.  It’s an easy change in that my legal name is the same.  Most importantly, it feels right to me. 

I tell my mother about the change, expecting her to be against it.  To my surprise, she tells me that she supports me and that she argued for my middle name to be my first name.  I’m sure some people will find this change strange, even ridicule it.  That’s ok with me because it feels right.

Best wishes,

Thank you for sharing your process.
Wednesday, October 29, 2010

Experiencing Feelings About Marriage

Dear Support Team,

My relationship improves over the last two months. Right before I go out of town for summer vacation, I think of breaking up with my girlfriend. I feel very sad and reminisce of the good times we have together.

Later on during vacation, we start talking again and getting along well. When I return home, we see each other often.
We continue drama-free for a while. Recently she tells me that she feels I am apathetic and she doesn't feel she can confide in me. I use this as good feedback to stay on a feelings-level with her.

I feel much less nervous or concerned about marriage. I think that she is a good mate and I want to spend more time with her to experience more things. Back during the workshop in April the idea of me being married feels far away and intimidating.

Now it feels much closer. I notice the feeling of uncertainty again. As I write, I realize that I may have been avoiding this feeling recently. I embrace the feeling and get more comfortable with it.

Thanks for your support.
Thank you for sharingyour process.

Fear of Marriage

can also involve ...

Fear of Divorce
Thursday, October 28, 2010

Austin Tribe Update for 10/21/10 -
Role Playing the Domineering Mother

A fellow tribe member takes the hot seat and describes how his mother would kiss him inappropriately when he is older. He describes his mother kissing him on the lips in a way that makes him feel uncomfortable and used as a surrogate spouse.

He gives details of how she cups her hands around his face and squeezing tightly then kisses him on the lips. The process manager asks him to get into this feeling and the tribe member gets fully into the form and demonstrates the feeling. The process manager asks if this is being repeated in his life now.

He describes that a woman who is a “friend” but insists on becoming romantically involved continually calls him and pushes herself on him. He feels taken advantage of and used. She insists on eating at high priced restaurants and asks directly in front of sales people if he will not buy her certain gifts at that moment when they are shopping together and trying to force religion on him.

He describes being fed up with her behavior and wants to end the relationship - he says he gets nauseated every time he hears her voice. The process manager asks the tribe to share some other resources he can share with this woman.

He asks if it would help to role play a phone call from this woman. I volunteer to play the role of this woman and we role play a phone call. I notice the feeling of being disconnected from my feelings as I attempt to impose my agenda on him. I feel I want control in this relationship. I want what I want and that is all there is to it.

I try to medicate his feelings with religious overtones and I am very persistently working to accomplish my agenda. The tribe member shares his feelings that he feels nauseated by me, that when he hears my voice he wants to throw up.

I stay in the control model with my agenda. The tribe member successfully shares his feelings and ends the relationship. I find this interesting as I have experienced being in the role of the surrogate spouse myself.

Feeling trapped and disgusted by my mother's behavior but I recall also feeling guilty if I do not comply with her wishes. I feel this heavy burden of complying with her demands, whatever they may be. I always find that being willing to assist a fellow tribe member by involving myself in a role play many times connects me to something going on inside of me and next to being on the hot seat, is a way to connect with feelings that I may or may not be aware of.
Thank you for sharing your process.

You Can Tell Whom You Are

by what you attract.

We Use Role Playing

to examine ourselves and others.
Tuesday, October 26, 2010

First Tribe Meeting

Hi Ed.

I wrote a letter to you 09.25 about translation of your book). Thank you for your answer, and I want to tell you that I don't hold that some feelings are good and some bad. Generally I think that all our feelings in essence are instruments or parts of our awareness, we feel the world by them. But to do so (to feel the world) requires that they have to be free, and for me here lies the real issue and essence of TTP.

It frees our feelings that stuck in k-nots inside us. That is for me k-not is some stable energetic unit formed by our past experience in which some of our feelings are linked to other feelings and images. It is like you are describing in your book, for example, anger (which is one feeling) linked to strong judgment about it (which is another feeling). Together they form stable unit connected to each other feelings, which you call k-not.

That unit (as You yourself know) can be enough simple or very complex, but in any case till those fillings and images are linked to one another they are not free and we can't use them as our allies or to perceive the world by them. TTP helps us to untie our k-nots and set our feelings free and it is not just powerful it is mighty and, I think, simply the best in this.

I think the essence of Disappearance Process in disconnecting the parts of k-not from one another. That is fully experiencing feeling linked to some situation (or image) or another felling with help of our attention that is holding on k-not (especially after tipping-over point) gradually disconnects parts of that k-not from one another. After this process is completed different parts of k-not are no longer bound together (and that's why become our allies), and that’s why when person again imagines his issues he feels nothing,, that is k-not cease to exist as one coherent unit.

Sorry for such lengthy explanation of my views (even it is as short as possible))) but I see that as my little contribution in theory of TTP.

Now I want to give you short account of the first meeting of my Tribe. Our Tribe is small – four people, two men and two woman. First processes, before Developing Forms, were a bit strange and awkward but nothing really special.

Something really interesting begins when I start to develop some form of annoyance (another guy receiving me, and before that I am his receiver and he is successfully developing his form).

I am puckering up my face and rubbing my head with my palms and bent fingers. My receiver encourages me to do it more. Then I begin to weep quietly, lower my head and lean to my knees still rubbing my head. I have desire to lie on the floor. There with the help of my partner and intensifying different parts of my form I am almost loosing myself in a very intense weeping-crying-curling and strangely moving form. I am even making two other girls stand up from their chairs by crawling to their place and pushing them (I am not aware of that). My receiver does not stopping to encourage me and when I finally stop everybody watching me with look of total surprise. This is the moment when I first time see the power of TTP. Then we have a check-out and after the brake we proceeding to Developing Forms in a Small Tribe.

I choose my friend to be on hot seat. He is describing his issue and gradually beginning to develop his form. He starts rubbing his eyes with his fists like a child. Then he rubs his face and very intensely his head back and forth. His face distorted. After rubbing his head he is lifting his elbows up and gently touching his shoulders. We encourage him and help him to complete his rubbing form. After few times repeating it, he is saying that he likes it, and form gradually looses its intensity.

Then he starts to rock back and forth on his chair and – while leaning down – moves his fingers up and down his ankles. We help him to complete this form to. Then I ask him to repeat his two forms one by one. He willingly does it, and after few times doing that the third form appears. It looks like release of his previous tension. He is arching his body sitting on his chair, straightening his legs and his hands over his head.

After completing forms I ask him to tell us about his issue, and he says that it is not a problem anymore and that he doesn't have any heavy feelings associated with it.

Then we decide to finish first part of our first tribe meeting and I call for final Check-out.

Next day after drumming and check-in I decide to take hot seat with my trading issues. I begin describing my situation and after some while I notice that other members just attentively listening to my story and don't picking up parts of my form. I feel some disappointment and annoyance about their being too slowly and passive. I stop and begin to tell them about that. They start to defense and we are entering into some drama. I am stopping it quickly and decide to start session again with another issue that is actually hotter at the time – my disappointment and annoyance with the people who is around me. I am beginning my story and my friends quickly picking up parts of my fist form.

I can not describe all my forms that are following after that because they are about a dozen and some of them are really complex. It would be to long and difficult for me to describe them in English. They are so intense that everybody including me are in shock.

During all the process Leader repeatedly asking me, if I am enjoying my forms, and I can't enjoy any one of them and going to another. But when I experience each of them for a while they are gradually loosing their intensity. Near the end of the session I am sitting on the floor with my left foot under me, right knee up and right thigh touching my chest, rubbing my right ankle. I start to growl softly and then whispering “I shouldn't feel rage, I shouldn't feel rage”. My friends encourage me to say it more. Intensity of that phrase grows up than gradually subsides and l am beginning to growl more and more loudly and intensely. Leader asking me, if I like it, and I am saying “Almost do” and “Kind of”. I am finally coming to the form and feeling that I like to experience.

When this form is completed, we stop the process and take a brake. We decide not to continue with Reintegration Process because we are sitting is some flat and process is so loud, that we are thinking there is no need to get excessive attention of our neighbors (You are absolutely right, Ed, privacy is really essential).

Then one of our girls takes hot seat. She is in bad mood and not actually willing it, but I am making mistake and pushing her a bit to do it. She has difficulty to open herself, but with our help she is developing two forms. But they are bleak and she doesn’t want to work. So after about half an hour unsuccessful attempts we stop.

After break and final check-out we finish our first Tribe meeting.

From this meeting we realize few things: 1) I discover that there are a lot of strong k-nots inside me and I have to untie them as soon as possible. 2) I discover that there is nothing actually bad in rage (or anger) and when I am not suppressing that filling I actually become stronger. 3) We realize that very important part of the Leaders job is to watch that the current form is completed before proceeding to next one. 4) I know now that you should try your best to complete the process (especially about strong k-not) because if it is not completed the feelings you have touched become somehow agitated and you may get some sleeplessness. 5) Sender must be really willing to work, if he/she is not – process is not working. 6) TTP is much more complex then we thought before actually going through the Process. So we know for sure now that we have to learn it deeper.

My best regards.
Thank you for sharing your process.
Monday, October 25, 2010

Continuous Contracts

Hi Ed,

Thank you for your response to my earlier post questioning the splicing method used for the Comex Gold continuous contract (Panama Style, last true)?

After reading a few articles debating the pros and cons of various contract splicing methods, my first impression was that baking data so it is suitable for use in a trading program is sub-optimal.

For example, splicing on different parameters will have varying results when run through a trading simulator.
If one splices a contract, one is faced with running a number of splicing methods with differing parameters for a single instrument and examining the sensitivity.

Furthermore, one needs to verify the stability of the parameters across instruments. Seems like a lot of manual labor.

An alternative may be for the trading system to handle the rolling of a contract in the here and now and parameterize the rolling strategy, similar to how the fast and slow metrics are parameterized.

Good models reflect reality, I do not see splicing contracts before hand reflecting trading very well.  The con side of this system would be the difficulty verifying the results -- not much to compare against.

I will tinker with the TSP trading systems to handle a rolling strategy in the here and now, and compare them against various continuous contract splicing strategies. I hypothesize that the First True Method will reflect actual trading closer than most. If I do not succeed, I will still learn
about contracts and trading systems.

I will be happy to read your thoughts on the above.

Thanks again for the TSP.
Continuous contracts provide a pretty good way to determine the long term trend from individual delivery segments.

This approach seems most applicable for metals in stable contango - and less so for agriculturals with seasonal spreads such as July/November Soybeans and October/Feb Pork Bellies.

Other complications can arise during very volatile markets, from having free-running nearby futures and price limits on the more distant ones.  The Silver move to the $50 area has very different continuous contracts depending on the choice of deliveries and the roll dates.

Other approaches are to determine the long-term trend from the underlying cash chart - or from a the rolling chart, say 1 month or three months out, similar to LME contracts.

When You Link Elements Together

you generally get

whatever you get.
Monday, October 25, 2010

Austin Tribe Review

Dear Ed,

Thank you for allowing me to participate in the Austin Tribe and for the sharing of your life and knowledge in a way that enriches all our lives. I feel good that I have grown in my ability to have more intimate communication in my relationships and that I am able to observe control elements and patterns in my life and family. I feel good to see how our fellow tribe members have made progress in so many areas by expressing feelings and asking about feelings, and how that resource alters attitudes and breaks impasses.

I have utilized the procedural elements of conducting a tribe meeting in business meetings (asking a presenter/sender how they feel, asking the audience/receiver their feelings and allowing the presenter to have the last word) and have received tremendous feedback about the success and direction of the meeting.

Thank you for your willingness to share yourself with us.

Thank you for your comments and encouragement.  

I am thinking of starting another 10-session series in January.
Monday, October 25, 2010

Wants a Loan

Hi Ed,

I would very much like to attend the TTP workshop but I cannot afford to pay the $2,999 fee in one installment. Is there a way, I can pay you $500 monthly for the next six months starting in November?

Please let me know.

Thank you for your inquiry.

I generally assist people in reducing debt and in building equity.  I do not wish to participate in directly increasing your debts.

You might consider using the $500.00 per month to pay down your other debts and/or building some savings.

You might consider taking your feelings about <being in debt> to Tribe.
Sunday, October 24, 2010

Addiction to Breaking Rules

Dear Ed,

One of the recent commitments I make in my tribe is to stop trading until I have some valid test results and then only to trade that one tested setup. Initially when I make this commitment I feel confident that my testing will be quick and produce good results.

Then after some time and effort I recognize that the testing is taking much longer. So I break my rule and start to trade.

At the next meeting I acknowledge that I falter and that I need to be more careful. I also clarify the rules about not trading and specify that I don't want to trade in a specific account because I want to move that money to another account (one with lower commissions and a specific trading strategy). So again I commit to not trading in that account (except for closing positions to free up cash). After a few days I take some profits in that account and free up a some money. I transfer a substantial percentage of money out of the account (step in the right direction), but I still have some cash in it. Then I take trades in it again.

As I break the rules and take these trades I feel that I know I am not supposed to do this, but "I just cannot miss this opportunity."

I feel that since I don't have my other accounts funded yet, this is the only place to take this opportunity. All along, I don’t fund my other account yet. Internally I rationalize that a few more successful trades and there will be more money to take out and allocate to my planned purposes... but of course, if history is a guide, taking trades in this manner is more likely to lead to losses than to gains.

I sense that this is a repeating pattern in my trading: I overtrade; I do not stay away from trading even when I have a specific plan/commitment NOT to trade. I feel like I am addicted to trading. I sense some dread about the thought of trading as an addiction. I rationalize that being passionate about trading and wanting to trade is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as I do it with a proper framework (I.e. tested setups; risk management and money management).

I question: is an addiction always a bad/dangerous thing? What about the artist who is not happy unless he practices art? Or the top athlete who only gets to the top by being obsessive about his sport? Isn't passion for the trade what makes the great ones great?

Alas, here I am, starting another week and planning to NOT take any trades in this account, but instead to close some of the existing positions and transfer the money elsewhere.

Thank you for your support,
Thank you for sharing your process.

In our Tribe work, we do not engage TTP until you acknowledge a problem and declare your intention to change something.

I do not sense you view breaking rules as a problem or that you are passionate about changing your patterns.

You might consider taking your feelings about <authority figures> to Tribe.

Some Rule Makers

seem to make rules

for rule breakers.
Sunday, October 24, 2010

Passages About Fear

Dear Mr. Ed,

Thank you for the TTP process and the book. I am having a very hard time listening to my Fred, and after starting to attend tribe meetings, i am trying to at least experience my feelings.

I came across these two quotes on an article online and it immediately felt like part of the tribe process, so just wanted to share. The two passages i wanted to share are:

"You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing which you think you cannot do." - Eleanor Roosevelt

The program for eliminating ego-fear and unblocking serendipity is very simple: seek ego-fear. Hunt it down and soak in it. Steal its energy. This is, by definition, scary. That's good.

Thank you,
Thank you for the passages.

You might consider taking your feelings about <fear> to Tribe.
Sunday, October 24, 2010

Tribe Report


This week I take the hot seat about an issue I have with trading systems. I have started working on a system several times in the past, I get confused and lost on what to do and how to do it and put it aside for some time just to pick it up later with the same results.

After working with the process manager I remember my mom working with me on my math with flash cards. I get confused and a lost feeling and she encourages me to try harder which just increased the feeling of pressure tightening around my head and the sick feeling in my chest.

After talking about the use of resources I can use I feel like this time I will be successful.

The next member to take the hot seat had an issue of being in a contract that does not reward him for his work. He wants to renegotiate the contract but feels nervous and his legs shake just thinking about the meeting he has scheduled. He remembers a time at school when young and a bully that pushes him and he had the same shaky legs and anxiety. He also locates a feeling that he associates with his relationship with his father. The process manager gives him some new resources to try.

We break for dinner and after dinner he has the opportunity to practice the new resources. Other members modeled this for him and then he gets a chance to try the resources out for himself.

The last member on the hot seat had an issue she did not wish to talk about. The process manager encouraged her to close her eyes and have a conversation in her mind with the person she has the issue with. Tell them how she feels and ask them how they are feeling. As she is going through this process I feel a heaviness and notice I am taking shallow breaths. Somewhere close to the end of her process I feel the heaviness lift and a good feeling of energy down the center of my chest. I breath deeper and the energy seems to flow all the way down my legs to my knees. I notice her face looks lighter and she seems much more at peace.

The last member on the Hotseat discusses how his mother would cup his face in her hands and kiss him goodbye even when he felt it was late for this. The process manager ask if he has a surrogate mother doing this now. He says he does. It is a woman who keeps calling him even though he doesn't want to be in a relationship with her. He remembers a time when they go to a store and she ask if he is going to buy an expensive stereo for her. He feels used and taken advantage of. We let him practice using new resources for the next time he hears from her where he tells her exactly how she makes him feel. He likes this.

We check out for the last time this series. I feel sadness and the emptiness of loss as I know this series is over and I will miss everyone here.
Thank you for your report.
 Sunday, October 24, 2010

Wants to Work on TSP

Hello Ed,

thank you for your fast answers in FAQ.

I want to stick to the structure of the TSP because I trust in you and your experience and I assume that you had a good intention for this structure when you brought the TSP into being. So the topic I choose to work on is:

"Acknowledging Limits: Equity and Margin".

Plan for the project:

(1) Find some literature and sources that have good insights and ideas to form a basic knowledge.

- Have you some good recommendations on this for me?

(2) To create a structure with the contents of this topic. (Table of contents)

- Is it OK for you if I send you this structure to review it and tell me if my approach to the topic is good and covers the most important content?

(3) Summarize the information along to the structure (2) to give basic insights to the topic.

(4) Apply the acquired knowledge in programming.

(5) Send the results to you to review it.

What do you think of this plan for the project?

Best regards,
Thank you for your interest in extending TSP.

Popular back-testing software programs give you an idea of profitability and drawdown. 

Typically they stop short of registering the margin requirement or its effect on trading.

For example, if you trade aggressively (large positions relative to your equity) and if you have a drawdown, you might receive a "margin call" and have to reduce positions.

In extending TSP to cover this topic, you might like to begin by finding out, from the exchanges, the formulas they use (if any) to set the margin levels.

If you wish to take this topic in another direction, I am also open to that.

Saturday, October 23, 2010

Wants to Work on TSP

Hello Ed,

I would be honored to assist you in completing the TSP.

But you have to know that I haven't collected much trading experience yet and my first experiences in programming a trading system are from your TSP.

I am studying Business Administration at [University].

Nonetheless I am highly motivated to improve my knowledge and would be glad to help others with my work.

So please tell me how I can assist you?

Thank you for the offer. I appreciate the opportunity.

Best regards
Thank you for your offer.

You can assist me by (1) selecting a topic you would like to see on TSP and (2) completing it, and (3) sending it to me.

At that point, I can look it over and use it as is or collaborate with you on how to improve it.

Saturday, October 23, 2010

The Cause of Schools

Dear Ed

I read the comments on private vs. public education.

Private schools in the US are generally the preserve of higher income parents, who can afford to pay the fees in addition to the property taxes which fund the public schools. This indicates to me that successful parents tend to manifest a desire to send their children to private schools although this is not always the case, but even so, many upper income group parents will buy a house in a school district where the public school has a good track record and are prepared to pay the higher property taxes this can incur.

I would think that there is a fairly strong correlation between economic well being and scholastic aptitude. Since high IQ parents tend to have high IQ children then it follows that SAT scores at private schools are likely to be higher.

The argument that private schools offer better education than public ones is largely true, because in the intake of children has been pre-selected for success. Besides the entry barrier of fees at private schools, many of them have an entrance exam to weed out the less able. On the other hand public schools have to take everyone who enrolls.

This leads me to think that private schools are not better just because they are private, but because they are selective.

Universities all operate selection procedures using SAT scores and the ability to pay the fees and the results tend to vary accordingly.

With kindest regards,
Thank you for your comments.

The appearance of the word, because, generally indicates use of the causal model.

In the causal model, you propose a cause-effect pair and a cause-false cause-effect threesome:

Cause: pre-selection.
Effect: better offer.

Cause: selective.
False cause: private.
Effect: better.

Your conclusion seems to be that "selection" causes "good schools."

Your model provides a handy framework for enthusiastic legislator to draft a bill requiring rich, high IQ parents to select schools according to politically correct standards.


In a system model, you might also include (A) the effect of competition that motivates private schools and not public schools, (B) public funding that benefits public and not private schools, (C) difficulty in firing under-performing personnel in the public sector, etc.

You can then use your model to harvest further idea about how the system works - and test them out to see which ones are sufficient and necessary to generate the behavior mode in question.

When you have a model that reproduces the problem, then you can use it as a test platform to experiment to determine the types of behavior you might entrain with different policies.

Rube Goldberg's Pencil Sharpener

depends on a long chain
of cause-effect links
that conveniently have
no side-causes or side-effects.


Open window (A) and fly kite (B). String (C) lifts small door (D) allowing moths (E) to escape and eat red flannel shirt (F). As weight of shirt becomes less, shoe (G) steps on switch (H) which heats electric iron (I) and burns hole in pants (J). Smoke (K) enters hole in tree (L), smoking out opossum (M) which jumps into basket (N), pulling rope (O) and lifting cage (P), allowing woodpecker (Q) to chew wood from pencil (R), exposing lead. Emergency knife (S) is always handy in case opossum or the woodpecker gets sick and can't work.
Saturday, October 23, 2010


Hi Ed,

on FAQ main page there’re 1000 years to add … (“FAQ Archives: 2003-1010”) .

Thank you for the catch.
 Friday, October 22, 2010

More Support for Fred ... or Perhaps the Gut


I haven’t finished reading the TT book yet, but the parts I’ve made it through have been quite intriguing. As I was watching this TED talk, I couldn’t help but start thinking more about Fred, and conscious mind..

I look forward to finishing your book and getting involved with the TT.

Thank you for the link.
Friday, October 22, 2010

Tribe Report - Father's Anger and Zero Points
At our last 10/9 meeting we start with reporting on our projects. My projects are:
1. I have clients
2. I have balanced / surplus family budget
3. I am in great shape
4. I have strong performing trading system
I report that I procrastinate on “I have clients” project. I want to contact all the financial planners in the area, discuss launching a fund with my two brokers and market analyst I know. I find many ways to distract myself and not to do it.

It is great starting point. Part of my commitment for this meeting is a practice presentation of my Investment product. After the presentation I receive valuable feedback and encouragement from my Tribe fellow. I feel that my presentation was pretty bad. I drag ma feet on this for couple of weeks and it shows.
My fellow Tribe member reports on his projects. He does well on his "Excel at work" and "Being fit" projects. He also finishes first simple trading set-up testing project. His job is very demanding.  He has little extra time for variety of other investment endeavors he does. He also reports that he breaks his own rules and trades even though he commits to not trading until his has well tested system. He reports this second time in a row. Both trades end up working for him and he is happy about that.  
We take hot seats after that. I take the feeling of procrastinating, avoiding the work on my "I have clients project". In last couple of weeks I avoid calling the people I say I would to discuss the investment I want to offer. My form is very different from any other form I do before. It looks like I am paralyzed, twisting my legs, hand and arms around each other, rocking my torso slightly. I do not like snakes or spiders and it reminds me of the feeling I get when I encounter one.

The form and feelings go away few times, but I keep coming back to it until I start really getting into it. Thought from my childhood pops into my mind. I am sitting on a floor with my dad and he is teaching me how to read the clock. I do not get it. He is getting angrier and angrier.

I remember this feeling just wanting to be done, avoiding it, feeling like I am stupid or something just getting out of there. I feel embarrassed that I can't learn it. I just do not get it. I tell about this to my Tribe fellow and we go for the roll play. He starts yelling at me and I right away feel this feeling of shutting down and moving to the side away from the yelling ever so low, just to avoid it, hoping he will stop.

He keeps cranking up the insults and I keep getting smaller and smaller until in a split of a second I burst into a laugh. I shrug my shoulders like I do not understand and start saying "Well, I don't know, I just don't”, with kind of a high pitch voice, laughing and smiling. I say "What do you want from me? I don't get it, I am sorry I just don't." All of a sudden I am able to communicate how I feel to my father; "Well I just don't know", how about that. Kind of what are you yelling about? I just don't know. I feel that I can learn this clock thing eventually who knows when. We are just starting right? So what, that I do not get it, dad?

I feel now that the whole thing is funny! I am amazed. This is one of my most unpleased memories with my dad and now it is funny? What just happened? Instead of worrying about myself I wonder about him. How he gets upset like that? I wonder about his anger.

We go thru the whole process again. It is funny now. It is still funny as I write about it I am grinning. Quicker I start sending the message; “I don't know” and shrugging my shoulders less yelling there is from my father.

My fellow Tribe member now wants to see how I feel about calling my brokers about the investment. I picture myself being comfortable on a phone. I am just starting this Commodity fund thing so what if I do not know something. Monday after the meeting I contact my two brokers and friend market analyst. I end up discussing the possibility of putting our trading program on a list of offered programs by brokerage house of one of them.

We end up not reaching the deal as the RT per million they want from a CTA far exceeds the RT per million my system generates. During the whole process from contacting them thru the data supplementation and discussing the possibilities up until the point when the deal fell thru I enjoyed it.  

I learned in the process about how much money is this brokerage charging their customers when providing the CTA program and how the brokerages pushes for round turns rather than worries much about the returns for client.

I take other steps in preparation for the presentation. My life has more color to it. I feel like I can do anything, exercising, spending time with family, work - all of it is fun. As I contact hotels to see conference rooms they have to offer and the rates, I start to feel uneasy. I see myself presenting the investment - being clumsy, unclear. I feel fear from speaking in front of the people. I start to investigate the subject of public speaking and order a book. Our Tribe meeting is tomorrow – good deal, right on time. I am taking the feeling of "fear of speaking on front of people” as a starting point.
My fellow Tribe member takes to his hot seat frustration he feels at home. He has a two year old son, works from home very time and energy consuming job. He is part time trader, real-estate investor tries to take of-the-ground yet another business and tutors friend’s son. He feels unappreciated from his wife.

He invites his wife to support him on the Tribe work and she declines. He feels rejected.  He has no problem to get into the feelings; however has tough time to reach a zero point. Part of his form is juggling many objects in the air, another he is just moving as quick as possible from one task to another, every time ending tired and confused.

We roll play situation with his wife. He is working as she walks in all frustrated yelling that the baby wouldn't go to sleep and that she doesn't know what to do about it.  

My fellow Tribe member explains to me that he doesn't want her to pick him up as that is exactly what the child wants.

He is afraid that the kid is going to end up wanting to be picked up all the time. He tells this to his wife and she is frustrated. I roll play his wife. I keep running into the office really upset. Every time he starts explaining to me what to do, not to do, how to do it and what he thinks about it and me (his wife) telling me to stop freaking out. We keep getting nowhere.

After several attempts we take a time-out and discuss the receiving. We switch the roles where he plays his wife and I play him. He seems to gain some insight into receiving his wife. He still seems to have trouble with that. He seems to want to tell her what he things, how to handle the situation and where she, he thinks makes mistakes. He continues experiencing his frustration with this and with all the tasks he wants to accomplish. He doesn't reach the zero point. I start to feel frustrated also as I wish that he can do it, not knowing how to assist him better. I wonder if I can do a better job receiving him or he just doesn't want to get all the way there yet. Probably little bit of both. It is late and we decide to go home.
Thank you for reading.

Thank you everybody for posting.

Thank you Ed for your support and wisdom you share with us.
Thank you for sharing your process.

As the work evolves, we now rarely take a form to term or to the zero point.  Spilling the form. can act like a "calming" drugs - that makes "bad" feelings go away - and does not impact the underlying situation.

Such "medicinal" resources can entrain repetitive rituals of relief and can lead to the development of "signature forms."

These days, we generally develop a form until it starts to peak, at which point we "freeze" it in order to locate a critical incident that we can role play and retro-fit with pro-active resources such as sharing feelings.

Some people have a long history of employing the control model - such as using orders, manipulation and force to make other people "behave."

In such cases, I frequently test for willingness.  If Hot Seat is not willing, I terminate the session quickly and move to other business.  Otherwise, the session can turn into a co-dependent contest of wills, an exercise in "I bet you can't fix me."

These Wrestlers

know they are likely to lose the match

and their standing in the Federation

if they base their strategies
on asking their adversaries
if they are willing to open up
and share feelings.
Friday, October 22, 2010


I feel sadness at the tenth and final meeting of my Tribe series.  I also feel enormous satisfaction and joy at the tremendous growth I perceive in all my Tribe mates over the course of the series. 

Many people have much deeper and more satisfying relationships with their friends, spouses and associates.  I see new business formations, re-energizing of existing businesses and letting go of relationships that don't work. I see change of physical appearance, development of ease and joy in relating to others and even a marriage during the series. I see evidence of the skills we develop in Tribe radiating out in to our lives and becoming part of they way we naturally operate.

I also notice growth in myself, particularly in areas of relating to others. One of my big AHA's is that I can use my anger as a trigger to share feelings with others rather than as an excuse to "blow up" and throw tantrums.
Thank you for sharing your process.
Thursday, October 21, 2010

Progress Report

Hi all,

have completed buildout of reception / office
we have doubled square footage am training 10 ppl currently/brokers

my book is in final production ... and am launching third fund next week private equity fund

bit stressed ... still looking for balance.

excited about new fund launch

miss many of you hope I may see you all again
Thank you for sharing your process.
Thursday, October 21, 2010

Quarterly Report

Dear Support Team,

I'm finding deep satisfaction in working with others, pooling resources, and moving forward together. For me, collaboration is expansive and enriching -- for both myself and others. It's win-win. It's living in interdependency.

The attachment is an excerpt from the book "I Can If I Want To", by Arnold Lazarus and Allen Fay. The chapter is part of the inspiration for me to grow in the area of collaborative relationships.

This is my final progress report for this process and completes my commitment to send quarterly reports to my support team for one year.

Thank each of you for your support and encouragement in this process.

Thank you Ed for sharing the Commitment Process at the October 2009 TTP Workshop.

For me, this process is life changing. I'm truly grateful.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Thursday, October 21, 2010

Tribe Report - Dealing with Embarrassment

Dear Ed,

At the ... Tribe I feel the initial sadness and anger of the woman who is on the Hotseat. As she goes through the process, she connects on a very intimate level with her sister, and I feel the connection, the love. She is courageous in sticking with the process.

Later, another person takes the Hotseat, and I’m deeply moved as he demonstrates incredible willingness to feel. His process inspires me to feel my feelings more.

During the meeting, I blow air out of my mouth right when I’m getting in touch with some feeling that I don’t want to feel. Ed notices my form and illustrates it to me. I know I have the form, but I don’t take any Hotseat. I’m grateful for another tribe member that takes a Hotseat regarding his relationship with a woman. I notice that I’m grateful that he is taking up time in the meeting so that I find an excuse not to take the Hotseat. He discovers that he is concerned about how other people think, and I really relate to that concern. It is sobering for me to realize that other people don’t really think that much about other people.

All this relates to my form. Ugh! I take my form to the local tribe. With help, lots of help from the local tribe, especially the chief, I become aware that my form is helping me not to feel a very specific feeling: Embarrassment. This is my toughest Hotseat. I struggle to feel embarrassment.

Other tribe members have to model this for me. I then feel the feeling of embarrassment and try out some new resources. At check out, a tribe member asks me how I feel. I say that I feel a little embarrassed that I took up so much of the tribe meeting and that it took me so long to get through the process. I add that I’m not really sure if I'm making progress. The tribe member smiles and points out that because I’m willing to feel embarrassed that’s a sign that I make progress.

My life changes. I notice that I’m willing to feel embarrassed, and as I feel embarrassed, I state my feeling openly. I’m shocked at the wonderful responses that I get from other people. Trying not to feel embarrassment no longer runs my life. I no longer have to amp up the drama to feel embarrassed.

I’m thankful for the support of the Austin Tribe and Ed’s willingness. I’m thankful for my local tribe and their support.

Thank you for sharing your process.


is a feeling that associates
with the awareness
that you are outside social norms.

5000 Naked Australians

create a social norm
in which a person in clothing
might feel embarrassment.

Thursday, October 21, 2010

Trading and Programming

Hi, Ed!

Thank you very much for the good work on psychology, especially for trading, Ed!

I am now a trader. I had not tribute my feelings and I had a lot of K-nots. Now it is gone.

My next project is to try to systematize my discretional trading method. That’s stimulate my engineering side.

I will use C# or Visual basic.

Do you have some suggestions to good programming sites or books?

Best regards
I use MS Developer Studio as my platform. I use Google to research "how to" issues. I also collaborate with my programmer, who has a lot of talent and experience and who helps me convert my demos or "toys" into professional class code.
Thursday, October 21, 2010


Hello Ed,

I am doing the TSP on your website and would like to know if the other topics (from "Acknowledging Limits" to "Operations) will be filled with information in the future?

Thanks a lot for your very informative site and helpful exercises!

Best regards,
I am open for you to assist me in completing it.
Wednesday, October 20, 2010

Workshop and System Dynamics


I am considering attending the workshop and have been working on the EcoNowMics part of the site. This really has helped me understand the process of trend following and modeling much better. How much system dynamics and the info in EcoNowMics will be a part of the workshop?
Thank you,
The Workshop content generally follows the interests of the participants.  If you have a particular interest in System Dynamics, we can likely include it.
Wednesday, October 20, 2010

Charting Emotions

Hey Ed,

Do you think its possible to chart emotions? I was thinking in terms of opposites like happy and sad. The center would be the zero point and happy would go up, sad down on the y axis while x would represent the passage of time. I wonder if the chart would look like a sine wave leading to a sort of conservation of emotions theory or if it would be more random and even have trends?

thanks for your time,
Yes, I think it might be possible.

Charting Emotions

This graph, shows the evolution
of various feelings
during a market cycle. 

The model that generates the graph
is an endogenous feedback system
in which price and emotions
interact to create the cycle
without an exogenous "driver."
Graph and Emotion Model (c) Ed Seykota, 2010